RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: KiwiPeter on Saturday 11 April 20 05:44 BST (UK)
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Ronald Harry HILL born 1920 and most certainly in New Zealand by 1940, according to NZPG
two enties out of 5 in The NZPG gives him as a native of Australia.
While I am asking, how do you lookup WW2 army records in Australia?
Please,Thank you and trust you and your families are safe and well......
Peter
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You use the National Archives of Australia website to look at the index.
ADD
https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection/defence-and-war-service-records
JM
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The NZ Police Gazette available via Ancestry has photos on one of the seven listings for the person named in your topic heading and in your opening post.
On the listing for 1944, it shows native of Australia, and a labourer and soldier, born 1920, and in the remarks it notes that he was Released on license, and handed to military authorities, I presume in NZ.
On your other thread re your search for your late father, you have given the newspaper cuttings for his death and funeral, and included there are the service numbers that have been searched and dismissed as WWII service in NZ defence.
A person by the same name as in your topic heading and opening post can be found in Australia via both Trove and electoral rolls at the same time as your late father was in New Zealand.
ADD
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828308.msg6923407#msg6923407
(One of the newspaper cuttings show Harry Joseph HILL, Regtl No. 779746, Second World War).
Further ADD, and a person (as per name in your topic heading and opening post) is listed on an Australian 1980 Electoral Roll as well. 1980 is the limit of my access to recent rolls.
JM
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yes you are correct, NZ Defence have already searched and came back that theres no body recorded with those names and or Number. I was wanting to check the Australian arm forces for that number.
Between 1920/21 and 1962 he could been any where at all.
I have no idea where that service number came from. NZ RSA Avondale have him on their honors board but no number.They keep NO records at all. So Some where along the way this number appeared, For the first time on the information from the undertaker then on the brass name plague at his grave.
The other name is possibly my father pre 1962. I know exactly where he was after 1962 until his death. Thats the easy part.
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Peter,
Sorry, but ...
A person with the same name as you have stated in your opening post is found listed in electoral rolls here in Australia, including in 1980, ie after the death of your Dad.
JM
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Peter,
On your NZ thread (linked earlier) I notice that a kind NZ RChatter has typed up info showing your mum from the 1957 NZ electoral roll, with the surname HILL. So I wonder why you are saying your Dad could have been anywhere in the years from his birth upto 1962. Surely you mean up to 1957....
There is a death and funeral indexed at the ryerson index that may well be the chap named in your opening post and in your topic heading.
Clearly the chap who died this century in Australia cannot be your late Dad.
Please do be careful to consider that in Australia the privacy of the individual includes their actual name, and that threads in Rootschat are easily found via Google.
I have contacted my HILL relatives, they have checked, Sorry, but none have any knowledge of either of your parents and they mention that the surname is not unusual in NZ.
JM
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yes I have probably confused the whole issue, sorry. Also i am reasonably New to doing family tree and VERY new on this forum. I have no idea what the ryerson index is...
Just to clarify things, Up to last week I believed (Harry) Harold Joseph Hill (Only ever heard him called Harry) was my father, mainly because of various documents etc which indicated he was. How ever the service number that appears on his Grave marker, appears to be completely made up by persons unknown. I guess your years could be right, I was born in 59 and I know the house was built in 62 and we moved in, Mum did not divorce from her first husband until 64 there about's.
This was the status until last week when it was suggested on the forum that my father may have been Ronald Harry Hill. Ages about right and looks. It was suggested he changed or stopped using that name and started using his middle name as his first.
That"s why I moved to the Australian part the forum, I have Ronalds NZ Service number (I think) and if I can pin him down on dates etc I may have won the find your father lottery, Its just a matter of finding out where he was between his birth in 1920 and his court dates in NZ in 1940. Which be another reason he may changed his name. Bit of a bad boy.
Only tangible link I have to Australia is on TWO of the NZ Police Gazette entries Ronald is shown as native of Australia. Nothing more or less.
Also I wondered if the service number may have been Australian. But that is a VERY long shot as the marker also says 2nd NZEF.
Kind regards and trust you and your family are well.
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Mum may have been using the Hill Surname back as far as 57, I know she was not divorced from her first hubby till 1964 there abouts, and she was still living with him up to at least march 57
I haven't actually seen the post you refer to so can not comment.
Peter,
On your NZ thread (linked earlier) I notice that a kind NZ RChatter has typed up info showing your mum from the 1957 NZ electoral roll, with the surname HILL. So I wonder why you are saying your Dad could have been anywhere in the years from his birth upto 1962. Surely you mean up to 1957....
There is a death and funeral indexed at the ryerson index that may well be the chap named in your opening post and in your topic heading.
Clearly the chap who died this century in Australia cannot be your late Dad.
Please do be careful to consider that in Australia the privacy of the individual includes their actual name, and that threads in Rootschat are easily found via Google.
I have contacted my HILL relatives, they have checked, Sorry, but none have any knowledge of either of your parents and they mention that the surname is not unusual in NZ.
JM
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Peter,
At RChat, we are not allowed to name people who may be still living. There is every possibility that the person you are naming in your opening post and in your topic heading is still a living person, alive in Australia. Whether you are new to family history or otherwise, and new to RChat or otherwise, when you signed up to RChat you would have read the Terms and Conditions, and noticed that we are not to breach or request the breach of privacy of persons who are or may be living. And, on your NZ thread I am sure that various regular posters have been respectful of this.
But I assure you that the person noted on the New Zealand police gazette in the 1940s as an Australian, born 1920, is probably the same person listed on Australian Electoral Rolls in the 1950s, and in the 1960s and as recently as 1980. So simply put, he is NOT your late Dad who died in New Zealand in January 1979. Plus, there is every possibility that the chap you are naming, actually married in Western Australia in the 1950s, and stayed married to his wife - afterall there is a person matching the name of his wife who is found on those same electoral rolls at the same address as him, in Australia, particularly including in 1958 and 1963 and still there in 1980. He may well be the chap who died in Queensland in 2002, and alternatively there may be others of that name, born in the 1920s and who are alive at the present time.
Ryerson index is one of the online resources listed in the Resource section of the Australia Board, here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
Here is a live link to its home page : https://www.ryersonindex.org/
It is easily found via google.
This thread is found easily via google also, simply by searching for the name of the person named in your opening post.
I have searched through various offline resources in case I can help your quest to find further information about your late Dad, so that you can search for his parents or siblings and your family on his side. I have not yet met with success.
JM
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.....
I haven't actually seen the post you refer to so can not comment.
I have requoted it on your NZ thread :
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828308.msg6929896#msg6929896
JM
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A couple of thoughts which may have already been suggested on your other thread. I did read the thread as it was unfolding but can’t recall if any of these have been suggested, or if they will be of any use:
I could not see anyone with the surname Hill on the National Archive of Australia website with this service number - 779746. The search engines does not allow searching by number only. Using Ancestry, there are no results for this service number.
Who was the informant on your father’s death certificate? Who provided the newspapers with this service number? Something to consider is that if only one of these numbers was wrong, then it would not match up with the name. There could be an error by whoever provided the number to the newspaper, or the newspaper themselves.
I believe with some army service numbers, you can get an indication of place and rough date of enlistment. I am not sure if this is also the case with WW2 service numbers but it might be worth looking into.
In your other thread you said that NZ army archives have no record of the service number. Depending on how you asked them to search, it may be worth revisiting this to expand the search? For example if you gave his full name and service number and they could not find a match, then it might be worth you asking if they can search by service number alone, by surname and forename alone etc. I am not sure if they can search via birth date, or just first name, but there are many combinations of search terms which could be used to search for him. This might be something you would have to do in person in the Archives themselves if possible once everything reopens. It is difficult to rely on an archivist who is busy with other things, to do a thorough and exhaustive search.
Once again, apologies if this has already been suggested or if I have missed something.
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Hullo,
Have you tried the WW2 Nominal Roll freely available online?
Will have a look at this site for you and if anything showing will get back to you.
Regards
clancam37
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:) The NZ thread has a chap with possible NZEF # as 620598 :D
Reply # 61
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828308.msg6924699#msg6924699
JM
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Hi KiwiPeter,
Mentioned earlier today the site "WW2 Nominal Roll" for Australian Servicemen.
There was a Ronald Henry HILL born Sydney NSW 27th June 1917
He had service Number: VX2586 later changed to VX147954.
A number of Ronald HILL and HILLS on this list.
Another with a birth-date 3 January 1920 at Devonport Tasmania Service Number: NX200608 with the name Ronald Alfred HILL.
Just read your rootschat re possible name: Harold Joseph HILL -- will check this name as well.
Have you tried PapersPast in NZ and TROVE in Australia?
clancam37
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Hi KiwiPeter,
Some more info for you. Not sure he is yours.
Newspaper article 1939 in West Australia -- age is right.
clancam37
copyright image removed
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Hi Clancam37,
Our OP, Peter, is searching for his father's origins. On his NZ thread you will find that Peter has provided copy of his own NZ birth cert, and also his brother's. On those documents their Dad is NZ born, and born circa 1924. So their Dad's name on those records is either Harry Joseph or Joseph.
A close reading of the NZ thread shows how alternative given names for their Dad has come about.
The Army number On The NZ grave does not match up to any 2ndAIF.
Hope the above helps. You will find quite a few trove sightings. I suggested trove back at reply # 2.
The NZ Police Gazette available via Ancestry has photos on one of the seven listings for the person named in your topic heading and in your opening post.
On the listing for 1944, it shows native of Australia, and a labourer and soldier, born 1920, and in the remarks it notes that he was Released on license, and handed to military authorities, I presume in NZ.
On your other thread re your search for your late father, you have given the newspaper cuttings for his death and funeral, and included there are the service numbers that have been searched and dismissed as WWII service in NZ defence.
A person by the same name as in your topic heading and opening post can be found in Australia via both Trove and electoral rolls at the same time as your late father was in New Zealand.
ADD
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828308.msg6923407#msg6923407
(One of the newspaper cuttings show Harry Joseph HILL, Regtl No. 779746, Second World War).
Further ADD, and a person (as per name in your topic heading and opening post) is listed on an Australian 1980 Electoral Roll as well. 1980 is the limit of my access to recent rolls.
JM
JM
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thanks for all the help, I will a few days to take it all in and research what I can.
There is a RH Hill with a New Zealand Service number, I doubt I can do anything about researching that until after the lock down.
Don't take it wrong if I go quite for a day or so as I do have health problems that I need to stay on top off.
Kind regards
Peter