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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: kel28 on Saturday 11 April 20 01:47 BST (UK)
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Hello, I am looking for information on the John Montford family line of the Loughconnelly area in County Antrim. John was married to Grace Ritchie, he died in 1858 and I am looking for ancestors of for John and Grace.
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Link to your Crawford posts-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=501863
Civil registration of deaths didn't start until 1864 so where did date of 1858 come from?
There's a John Montford of Loughconley with daughter Grace- perhaps son of John & Grace?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Longmore/Loughconnolly/928752/
Grace, daughter of John Montford & Elizabeth Crawford-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03105/2138516.pdf
Birth of Grace Ritchie Montford gives parents as Charles Montford & Nancy Crawford (see also Crawford thread)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03457/2269133.pdf
Widow Grace Montford died 1889 & informant was son John-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1889/06127/4749769.pdf
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Hello,
I was able to find John Montford's death date from the Will Calendar's on PRONI, unfortunately I do not have his birth date. I believe he is buried in Broughshane First Presbyterian, however, I have been unable to locate a headstone or any other information. I have been able to find a lot of information on most of their 10 children, however, I was hoping to find more information on their parents. The information you provided is the correct Montford line, and I thank you.
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John Montford burials at Broughshane are listed here http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pbg/
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Thank you for the link to the cemetery, the one headstone with the unknown dates is the one I really need, but unfortunately the headstone is not readable. I am in the US, so one day, maybe I can try and see if first hand to try and read it
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George Montford pension search 1917
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246684/007246684_00343.pdf
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246684/007246684_00344.pdf
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Thank you
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Prelim I didn’t exhaust familysearch org or Aghadoweys important response as i ran out of time
going back in time
1901Census has 52 Montfords the ones living in Co Antrim are all presbyterians
1901 Census has 4 Munfords the co antrim is CofE
note First Broughshane Presbyterian Church is in Racavan civil parish
1862 Griffiths Valuation see http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=&firstname=&offset=0&countyname=&parishname=&unionname=&baronyname=&totalrows=70&PlaceID=23546&wildcard=
Skerry Civil Parish
map ref 8 16 people share 162 acres of Mountain the first named is reps of John Montford
map ref 9, reps of John Montford house office and land 21 acres house valued £1 pa
10a, reps of John Montford office and land 7 acres and offce five shillings pa
10b Davis McCullagh landlord reps of John Montford house only ten shillings pa
the mountain is Knockramer 1106 ft above sealevel at the north end of a vertical very narrow townland the lower inhabited end has a road funning west to east the LoughLoughan Road further south is the more sw-ne Carnlough road
Sadly this particular map acquired by askabout ireland map is an incomplete copy only the lower one third is marked with Prices written on map ref nos most of whom are illegible. one might find another version showing just the map ref boundaries in say Ballymena hdgs library or valuations office Belfast
1862 Griffiths Valuation also has
in Racavan civil parish
James Montford Antrim Racavan
James Montford Antrim Racavan
John Montford Antrim Racavan
John Montford Antrim Racavan
Joseph Montford Antrim Racavan
sub lease Thompson Archb.Wm. Antrim Racavan
existing family links from your resposes
John Montford bbb 1813 d could be plot;A/#/569 m 1829 Grace Ritchie bbb 1813 d
Residence In 1851 Civil Parish Skerry Civil Parish Loughconnelly Townland
SEE EXTRACT
Loughconnelly see
http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=18766
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/skerry/loughconnelly/
children
George [b 1846 possible in GenesReunited ] no return found in 1851 census]
children LISTED IN PENCIL 1917 in census1851 query
James Montford b~ 1833 could m 1857 see https://www.ancestryireland.com Elizabeth Montford b~ 1836
John Montford b~ 1838 could m 1854 see https://www.ancestryireland.com
Charles Montford b~ 1840 could m 1867 see https://www.ancestryireland.com
Grace Montford b~ 1843
Mary Montford b~ 1846 could m 1868 see https://www.ancestryireland.com
Margaret Montford b~ 1848
George see note above
end of part 1
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continued
question could they be entered in tithes in other variant spellings? Yes very likely see http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/skerry-parish.php
as
Munfoad, Hugh Townland: Ballymena Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Bally Ligg Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825
Munford, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munford, S. Townland: Lisnamunican Year: 1825
Richey, Charles Townland: Ballymena Year: 1825
Richey, Frs. Townland: Broughshane Year: 1825
Richey, James Townland: Bally Ligg Year: 1825
Richey, Robert Townland: Bally Ligg Year: 1825
Ritchey, Charles Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825
Ritchey, John Townland: Eglish Year: 1825
that extends using my own index of tithes to include
Munfoad, Hugh-Townland: Ballymena Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Munfoad, John-Townland: Bally Ligg Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Munfoad, John-Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Munfoad, John-Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Munfoad, Thos.-Townland: Monkstown Year: 1835- Carnmoney-Antrim
Munfoad, Townland: Monkstown Year: 1835-- Carnmoney-Antrim
Munford, John-Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Munford, S.-Townland: Lisnamunican Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
this Munford spelling is in 1901 census
see skerry and racavan townland maps
Lisnamurrican the southern adjoining townland to Loughconnelly but in Racavan townland not apparently listed in Rathcavan at this time
Ritcjie are buried in Broughshane First Presbyterian Church
1796 Flaxgrowers of ireland no entries fund
from https://www.ancestryireland.com deaths
MONTFORD WIDOW 1764 SHANKILL BELFAST CO ANTRIM
MONTFORD ALEXANDER 1765 SHANKILL BELFAST CO ANTRIM
1740 1660shearthmoneyrollsulster –alpha no entries fund
1669 hearth money rolls
1838 Antrim Dunluce Lower Derrykeighan Ballyratahan 2 [Qr] Ballavafagan Robert Monfed Montford
168 Antrim Toome Upper Antrim Carngranny Comgreny Geo Munfude Montford
674 Antrim Antrim Lower Skerry Coreen Carnee Thomas Moonfore Montford
675 Antrim Antrim Lower Skerry Coreen Carnee John Monfore Montford
1049 Antrim Antrim Upper Donegore Ballyclaverty Ballyclaverty John Monfood Montford
152 Antrim Glenarm Upper Larne Larne Town Larne Parish & Towne Jo Munfudd Montford
198 Antrim Glenarm Upper Larne Larne Town Larne Parish & Towne Jam Monfudd Montford
1430 L'Derry N E Liberties of Coleraine Ballyaghran Kiltinny Killenny Robt Montfod Montford
good luck onwards
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Hello is there someone who can explain what "BBB 1813" means from the above post?
"existing family links from your resposes John Montford bbb 1813 d could be plot;A/#/569 m 1829 Grace Ritchie bbb 1813 d"
Also for the two in Loughconoly, could they be the same person or different, such as father and son? I am unfamiliar with how the tithe's books would work?
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825
Munford, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Thank you
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my apologies for not explaining it, bbb is shorthand for birthbestbefore and is a way of forming generations with unknown facts. Where I have used bbb I am taking 15/16 off the birthdate of a child,and in your case a marriage to find what decade in that century, I should be looking for ancestors going backwards..
the tithes are full of questions and the best explanation for you is to look up an original
Montford entry in the 26 counties version via nationalarchives
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp the montfordhave which has a copy of the original attached unlike NI which is a simple name index done by the Irish Genealogy hub, not by PRONI staff
the index opens with two entries for Archibald Montford the first entry is
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587398/004587398_00128.pdf which shows an entry No 414 for Archibald Montford as townland owner
and then the 2nd entry is
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587398/004587398_00137.pdf which shows which shows the same entry No 414 for Archibald Montford as townland owner
I think this shows the index has been done from the microfilm records by possibly two different indexers but it’s the same entry,and same person
I tried another with two entries for a henry montford which has two entries but this time separate townlands in Killashee Longford 1835
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625671/004625671_00232.pdf shows henry montford has 20 acres of deep soil and 23 of moor pasture in total taxable value £2 6 shillingsetc in Ballycore
the 2nd entry is for a different townland but with same microfilm reel number there is no way of telling if it is the same henry mountford he has a plantation this time.
all this suggests the Northern Ireland files have been produced not from the originals but from the microfilms. I use the tithes for 1. their location value in finding further possible information under local history rather than family history.2 the other same names in the townland or parish who might be relatives. THE PRONI Belfast is currently producing a digital version on the tithes which will help those who cant travel enormously
back to the list
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825
Munford, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
I separate them into separate townlands
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munford, John Townland: Loughconoly Year: 1825
Munfoad, John Townland: Loughloughan Year: 1825
my guess is in Loughconoly and some time during his visithe has discovered its spelt another way so its probably the same person
so better than nothing the tithes were collected not for the government but for the church of ireland and then collected by the government for the church. Somebody has probably written a book about it.
good luck
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Thank you very much for the explanation and all your help
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Thought I would share this page, it gives instructions on how to access the actual Northern Ireland Title books on Proni. If you follow the information on the bottom paragraph for the images
https://timeline.ie/tithe-applotment-books-online/
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Thank you Kel28 for that unexpected link, it worked for me, i was able to find the 1st page of islandmagee parish as an experiment. its great news, especially for myself,
i knew PRONI were starting to a digital version in the background. however i wasnt able to search by last name, did you find anyway around this? i have my own index to NI Tabs useing the names listed by the Irish Genealogy Hub by parish, if you want a copy its over 30mbs in size i can send it in smaller packages in pdf format or word.its too big for PM, so i shall send you a Pm with my email address.
I offered it to the Hub free of any strings but got no replies and gave up. i will send a copy to the PRONI in next few days.and the writer of that link.
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hello again i sent information to PRONI and of course they are closed so got a robotic response. Within ten minutes the phone rand and a Jane a PRONI staff member doing work form home replied. She had been happily surprised by my work. I have already sent her a simplified version without pages its 2mbts in size . The tithes are just now worked upon currently by home workers to make much more of them available to the public on line in due time, so my work might be useful for them. you triggered me into action which i should have done 4 years ago so many thanks for doing so.
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That's fabulous news. I happened upon the instructions on another site, I haven't really played around too much with searching PRONI that way, but now that I have a little bit of knowledge into what else is out there, I may try again to do more searching at a later date. I am very happy that I was able to help others. Again, thank you so much!
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Hello, I am looking for information on the John Montford family line of the Loughconnelly area in County Antrim. John was married to Grace Ritchie, he died in 1858 and I am looking for ancestors of for John and Grace.
Hi!
I am actually part of this Montford family line in Northern Ireland. Not sure if you'll see this, but I would be willing to get in touch. My grandad was George Montford. His parents were Joseph Montford and Annie Harrison. John and Grace Montford were my great, great, great grandparents.
I've been to the cemetary and walked around a few of the faded grave stones.
If you're still interested in looking into this I would be willing to hear back from you!
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
My grandad was George Montford. His parents were Joseph Montford and Annie Harrison.
The OP (kel28) hasn't been on RootsChat since June 2020 but if their email hasn't changed, they will get notification of your post and will hopefully respond to you.
So that others can see the marriage record, here's the link presumably to your gt grandparents in 1921.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09238/5343410.pdf
Joseph Montford in 1911 census
House 16 in Carnkeeran (Broughshane, Antrim).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Broughshane/Carnkeeran/119368/
Carnkeeran townland
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/skerry/broughshane/carnkeeran/
Annie Harrison in 1911 census
House 4 in Crebilly (Ballyclug, Antrim)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclug/Crebilly/122361/
Crebilly townland
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/ballyclug/ballyclug/crebilly/
Ballykeel (where she was living when she married) to the west.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
My grandad was George Montford. His parents were Joseph Montford and Annie Harrison.
The OP (kel28) hasn't been on RootsChat since June 2020 but if their email hasn't changed, they will get notification of your post and will hopefully respond to you.
So that others can see the marriage record, here's the link presumably to your gt grandparents in 1921.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09238/5343410.pdf
Joseph Montford in 1911 census
House 16 in Carnkeeran (Broughshane, Antrim).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Broughshane/Carnkeeran/119368/
Carnkeeran townland
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/skerry/broughshane/carnkeeran/
Annie Harrison in 1911 census
House 4 in Crebilly (Ballyclug, Antrim)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclug/Crebilly/122361/
Crebilly townland
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/ballyclug/ballyclug/crebilly/
Ballykeel (where she was living when she married) to the west.
This is amazing! Thank you so much for this info! Really great insight to look into this with my mum. I never met my great grandparents, but my mum has fond memories growing up with them. Really great to give her a bit of insight into their life before she knew them.
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Not too sure whether this relates to my Mary Ann Monford's family but she married Hugh Henry some time around 1823. I have never located her actual origins but the HENRY family have links with Ballybay in Monaghan about 1824 and were in Donegore, Antrim in the later 1820s until they left for England in the late 1840s.
Anyway this site is useful for Hearth Tax returns in Antrim 1669.
https://www.billmacafee.com/1660shearthmoneyrolls/1669hearthmoneyrollsantrim.pdf
4825 Montford (written) Monfood John Antrim Upper Donegore Ballyclaverty Ballyclaverty