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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: mosmi on Wednesday 08 April 20 21:27 BST (UK)

Title: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: mosmi on Wednesday 08 April 20 21:27 BST (UK)
Hello!

I wondered if I could call upon your powers of deduction to help me find out more about my great-great uncle, Frank Smith.

I can find him on censuses when he’s a kid, and I know some bits and pieces about him in later life, but nothing in-between.

This is what I know for sure:

Born: 4 December 1866, Walls Quarry, Brimscombe, Gloucestershire (from his birth certificate - can I post a scan of it?)

1871 census: Avening, Gloucestershire, 4yo - Scholar
RG10/2641/16/7

1881 census: Avening, Gloucestershire, 14yo - Farm labourer
RG11/2550/110/10

April 1940: his older sister Elizabeth Mary Smith leaves him some money in her will, and the probate calendar entry describes him as “Frank Smith, retired chief steward”.

Between 1881 and 1940, and thereafter, I’m stumped!

This is *potentially* him on the 1939 Register in Lambeth, given that the birthday matches the birth certificate:
RG101/0347F/004/41

It would also make sense in the wider context of most of his siblings having moved to London. Within the household is a lady called Blanche, but I’m finding it hard to find a marriage entry which makes sense.

More broadly, several of his siblings are just [first name] Smith with no middle names to distinguish them when searching - I’d be interested to hear how you tend to approach this, and verify that you’ve found the right one!
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 22:46 BST (UK)
What are his parents names?

Could this be Frank?

London Electoral Register Years 1947/48

13 Frederick Street Lambeth
Frank Smith
Blanche Smith
Winifred B Smith
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: mosmi on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:13 BST (UK)
Hello!

These are his parents names:
Thomas Smith, 1798-1880 - born in Abergwili, Carmarthenshire (yep, he was really in his sixties when he had Frank!)
Mary Jones, b 1831- originally from Thornbury, Bristol

Other census references for the family:
1861 - RG09/1777/94/22 (In Brimscombe, Gloucestershire)
1891 - RG12/465/39/7 (His mother and some of his siblings move to Camberwell, in South London)
1901 - RG13/533/52/10 (His sisters, Elizabeth Mary Smith, Louisa and Emily, and his mother in Lewisham, South London)
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:18 BST (UK)
To help others looking here’s 1871c detail

Thomas Smith   72 Superannuated revenue officer
Mary Smith   41
Elizabeth M Smith   12
Thomas Smith   10
George Smith   8
Frank Smith   5 Minchinhampton
Louisa Smith   2
Emily Smith   7/12

and 1881c

Piece:   2550
Folio:   110
Page Number:   10

Mary Smith   Wid. 40
George Smith   18 Wallsquarry, Gloucestershire
Frank Smith   14.  Ditto farm labourer
Emily Smith   10
Herbert Smith   6

Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:21 BST (UK)
You can find Winifred with mother Blanche on the 1911 census

Quote
retired chief steward

Away at sea could account for being unable to find him on censuses

EDIT

From Family Search

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71G-1FY
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:24 BST (UK)
What are his parents names?

Could this be Frank?

London Electoral Register Years 1947/48

13 Frederick Street Lambeth
Frank Smith
Blanche Smith
Winifred B Smith

Think Blanche & Winifred B are in Hawkesbury, Gloucestershire, along with an Ernest F B Smith b c 1905 in 1911?
Keyboard86

Just spotted your post Carole!
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:26 BST (UK)
Frank Smith
Baptism 13 Jan 1867 Brimscombe, Gloucestershire
Father:   Thomas Smith Retired revenue officer Mother:   Mary
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:28 BST (UK)
SMITH, ERNEST  FRANK MALVERN     mmn MALVERN     
GRO Reference: 1904  J Quarter in BLEAN  Volume 02A  Page 959
 
SMITH, WINEFRED  BLANCHE      mmn MALVERN     
GRO Reference: 1907  S Quarter in CHIPPING SODBURY  Volume 06A  Page 246

EDIT

MALVERN, LIZZIE  BLANCHE      PARKER     
GRO Reference: 1873  S Quarter in CHELTENHAM  Volume 06A  Page 419


See Edit to reply 4 - 1911 details from FS posted
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:31 BST (UK)
Marriages June qtr 1903 
Malvern    Lizzie Blanch/Blanche        Steyning    2b   603    
Smith    Frank        
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:38 BST (UK)
Marriages June qtr 1903 
Malvern    Lizzie Blanch/Blanche        Steyning    2b   603    
Smith    Frank   

Carole great find - I had found Lizzie B, Frank & Winifred B Smith still living at
13 Frederick Crescent Lambeth in 1961 and wondered if he had remarried I had
not been able to find his marriage
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:43 BST (UK)
Cheers - just added her birth details to the childrens
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:45 BST (UK)
1881c
Piece:   2977
Folio:   56
Page Number:   38

Florence St Cygnet Place No 5 Warwickshire

Charles Malvern   56 Grocer (Temp Out Of Business)
Elizabeth Malvern   45
Harry P. Malvern   14
Edith S. Malvern   12
Gertrude A. Malvern   11
Arthur G. Malvern   9
Lizzie B. Malvern   7 Cheltenham
Hubert E. Malvern   4
Ernest J. Malvern   3
 
Edit to add

Blanche Malvern age 17 Cheltenham with her widowed Mother Elizabeth and two siblings 1891 Gloucester
RG12; Piece: 2042; Folio: 36; Page: 27
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 08 April 20 23:55 BST (UK)
Possible death of Frank’s wife

SMITH   Lizzie B   Age 89   Sep 1962 Camberwell   5c   216
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 09 April 20 00:00 BST (UK)
Death of son

Ernest Frank M Smith aged 84 born 6 May 1904
Registration Date:    Aug 1988
Registration district:    Aylesbury Vale
Inferred County:    Buckinghamshire
Volume:    19
Page:    872

He died 29.8.1988 and left a will but the will appears in 1989.  He left nearly £133,000
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 09 April 20 00:09 BST (UK)
Daughter never married

Blanche Winifred Smith aged 81 born 25 Jul 1907
Death registered May 1989 Lambeth RD
Volume:    14 p 179

Died 28.4.1989 and left a will - estate just under £23,000

Will is under Winifred Blanche although death reg has names reversed

Wills can be downloaded for £1.50   
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 09 April 20 00:18 BST (UK)
Did Frank die between 1961 - 1964?

London Electoral Register
year 1964 only Winifred B Smith living at 13 Frederick Crescent Lambeth


Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 09 April 20 00:21 BST (UK)
Might this be his death entry

Mar 1964
SMITH   FRANK   Age 97   LAMBETH   5C   1356
Title: Re: Frank SMITH, b. 1866 Gloucestershire - moves to London in later life?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 09 April 20 10:30 BST (UK)
Winifred Blanche Smith
Baptism 13 Oct 1907 Hillesley, Gloucestershire
Father:   Frank Smith occ labourer Mother:   Lizzie Blanche abode Hillesley