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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 00:56 BST (UK)

Title: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 00:56 BST (UK)
I have a father that seems to just NOT want come forth and help me complete
that side the family.

IN fact Nothing past my father.
One reason I offer is we were brought up to call our elders aunt and Uncle.
Even neighbors so it is near impossible I would say.

I have tried the N Z army with the service number on his grave.  NOTHING
Various RSA clubs, Is on the honers board at one, but they hold NO records.
Undertaker, as per the death notice NOTHING
NZ Birth Deaths for a birth Certificate. NOTHING
Other family, Nothing.
Other family from dads side, well there's the problem, IS there any??

WHat I know or have

Harold Joseph Hill (Only knew him as Harry) Born 1921-1924 Place unknown.
May have a link to Palmerston North or Feilding (see below)

May have married my mother in 1964 or after. Maureen Faye Grant (Nee Smith)
My mother was divorced from Keith Grant in 1964, My father as Co Respondent.

3 Sons born in the 1950's and 1960's

Dads Cemetery Details
HILL, HARRY JOSEPH
Plot : SOLDIERS BURIAL M Row 16, Plot 157
Interment Type: Burial
Title: MR
Surname : HILL
Given Names: HARRY JOSEPH
Age : 57
Gender : Male
Occupation: STOREMAN
Date Of Death : 30-Dec-1978
Date Of Burial : 03-Jan-1979
Funeral Director : CONVERTED RECORD (Battersby)

If dads age is right above (57) he was born in 1921
If dads age is right on both our Birth Certificates (54) in 1959 then he was
born in 1924

I have mine and my Brothers birth Certificates
Mine shows - B1959,2Nd April - Father Harry Joseph Hill age 35 from Palmerston
North
brothers shows - B1960, 7th March - Father Joseph Hill age 35 from Fielding

I do not have any concrete proof his name was Harold Joseph Hill apart from
documents in relation to the divorce were he is named as Harold Joseph Hill.

On My birth Certificate he is named - Harry Joseph Hill
And on my brothers he is just - Joseph Hill

Only other thing I have is an address were we lived from approx 1962 until his
death in 1978. 12 Beverly Place New Lynn, Auckland, N.Z.

He worked in New Lynn and Avondale area mainly. Employed by Womald Brothers for sometime.

Grave Marker shows 2nd NZEF, Service number 779746, as stated NZDF has no record
of this.

So a complete mystery.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 03 April 20 01:06 BST (UK)
Hi,

You should probably just put your and your brother’s names as initials.

Electoral rolls are on Ancestry for 1959
No Harold Joseph leaping out. What was his occupation on your birth certificate?

I can see him in New Lynn later. First as just Harry Hill, 1972 & 1978 Harry J. Hill
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 01:13 BST (UK)
No Occupation shown on either mine or my brothers, In fact no area for that.
I think usually he called himself a Storeman or a Fitter, but can not be sure.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 03 April 20 01:28 BST (UK)
I cannot see a way to search the WW2 ballot lists by number.  :(

No-one on the online cenotaph has that number
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 03 April 20 01:35 BST (UK)
Skimming the WW2 ballot lists, I actually don’t see any number starting with 7.
The May 1945 list looks to be all 6xxxxx.

There must be someone who knows about this out there.

(I was thinking perhaps his number was correct but he had a new name).

Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 01:39 BST (UK)
Do you know who organised his funeral?
Unfortunately Battersbys the funeral directors closed last year and I am not sure where their records went,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 01:55 BST (UK)
There are 2 divorce files at Archives

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22744849

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22745216

The second is date 1962-1972

It may be worth applying to the court for permission to view them
Explaining why you need the information

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 02:02 BST (UK)
Is this your mother in the 1957 electoral roll

Maureen Faye Hill 1957   Ponsonby   Auckland

If so she may have just taken the Hill name

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 03 April 20 02:09 BST (UK)
Do you have his death cert, for parents’ names, etc?

Jamjar
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 02:12 BST (UK)
as I stated I have the divorce papers, as I applied to the high Court last year, and have copies of whats there. There was only one page the judge would not let me see.

I contacted a very lovely lady that handles the Battersby records and after much looking she located the paper work for me. It does not tell me much I did not already know really, Seems my younger brother did all the arranging, All tho he denies that. That same service number is written on that paper work.

I suspect they never did marry. There was 3 of us kids by Jan 1964, and was still married to her first husband, Altho they had not been together since 1957.
There was 4 children to that first Marriage.

I have a VAGUE recollection about visiting a shop in Ponsonby road as child. but very vague as to if it was a Stationary or maybe haberdashery.
She died 26 Aug 1993
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 02:22 BST (UK)
What honours board was he found on?



Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 02:22 BST (UK)
Do you have his death cert, for parents’ names, etc?

Jamjar
No that's something I do not have, I did apply for his Birth Cert, but they could not locate that in 1921-1924 and a couple years each side.
After lockdown I may have apply for his death Cert and see if it has any clues.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 02:25 BST (UK)
What honours board was he found on?



Cheers Janette

Avondale RSA. But getting info out them is nah on impossible. They just do not keep any member records at all. I still have that email from them, took weeks and weeks and multiple requests. Plus a request via RSA head office.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 02:31 BST (UK)
Actually I was a bit wrong in that last post. New Lynn RSA finally replied re my request...
Avondale never did and I ended up having to get RSA head office, and they asked them. Quite happy to post the email reply s here if wanted. You would be surprised just how UNHELPFUL they was.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 02:33 BST (UK)

Avondale RSA. But getting info out them is nah on impossible. They just do not keep any member records at all. I still have that email from them, took weeks and weeks and multiple requests. Plus a request via RSA head office.

In fairness to the Avondale RSA they are in temporary premises and have been for some time.

Maybe his number was ermmmm fudged if it wasn't known so he could be buried in an RSA grave.
Have Veteran Affairs any records?

Cheers Janette

PS if you get his death record from BDM's purchase his "printout" it is cheaper,can be emailed to you and is a photocopy of the entry in the register

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/paymentsandproducts
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 April 20 02:40 BST (UK)
No Occupation shown on either mine or my brothers, In fact no area for that.

Do you have a full copy of your own birth cert or just an extract?  These are the information fields that should be on it....

Child

When and where born
Name of child and whether present or not (child was with parent at time of registration)
Sex

Father

Name and surname
Rank or profession
Age
Birthplace

Mother

Name and maiden surname
Age
Birthplace

Parents

When and where married

Informant

Signature
Description
Residence
If entry is a correction of a former entry

Registrar

When registered
Signature of registrar
Name if added after birth

Debra  :)

Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 03 April 20 02:56 BST (UK)
What is his army service number? I can't find where you have listed it.
Have you considered that he did not serve in the NZ army, but with another country - USA, Australia, Britain?
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 April 20 03:02 BST (UK)

Grave Marker shows 2nd NZEF, Service number 779746, as stated NZDF has no record
of this.


Debra  :)
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 03:04 BST (UK)
Service number is shown on Grave, 779746  2nd NZEF
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 April 20 03:13 BST (UK)
Has anyone in your family ever seen any medals belonging to your father?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 03:30 BST (UK)
No Occupation shown on either mine or my brothers, In fact no area for that.

Do you have a full copy of your own birth cert or just an extract?  These are the information fields that should be on it....

Child

When and where born
Name of child and whether present or not (child was with parent at time of registration)
Sex

Father

Name and surname
Rank or profession
Age
Birthplace

Mother

Name and maiden surname
Age
Birthplace

Parents

When and where married

Informant

Signature
Description
Residence
If entry is a correction of a former entry

Registrar

When registered
Signature of registrar
Name if added after birth

Debra  :)

Yes its a full, cost $33. I understand from the BDM site

Birth Certificate Fields

The certificate will only have information in a field if it was collected and provided at the time of registration.

My brothers is one those fancy ones with a picture. So thats a full one as well.

A lot the information on these cert has been fudged etc by my Mother or/and father, I assume this is because they really did not want be found. Considering they had been living together since 1957ish and had brought that house in 62 there abouts.

as an example on mine APRIL 1959,
My Mum is FAYE HILL
Her surname/family name at birth  PETERSON
and her age 28
The family name is really Smith, I guess PETERSON is a mix of my name and being a son. ;-)

On my brothers. in March 1960
Her name is FAYE HILL
Her surname/family name at birth  SMITH
and her age is now 30

No where is her real name shown, i.e Maureen Fay and she was born 3 Nov 1929

Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 03:41 BST (UK)
Has anyone in your family ever seen any medals belonging to your father?

Debra  :)
well only family really is my brother and I and neither of us has ever seen any medals.
My mums side family have no idea, Mum just disappeared for a while and then reappeared after some time. I assume this would be 1957 to 62 or 64 at a guess.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 03:59 BST (UK)

Yes its a full, cost $33. I understand from the BDM site



Get a "printout" You can probably do it on the 0800 number for yourself and it is cheaper

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Dundee on Friday 03 April 20 04:26 BST (UK)
You said...

No Occupation shown on either mine or my brothers, In fact no area for that.

There should be a field for your father's occupation and place of birth if you have a full birth cert.  Has that been left blank?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 04:35 BST (UK)
no there just isn't one on either.

The BDM site seems to say that if that info was supplied at the time, thats what is entered, One has assume that it just was not supplied on either.

My bothers is the one with the fancy picture, it hasn't got a slot for it either, I can scan the father section and post a picture if you like.

Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 03 April 20 04:44 BST (UK)
Kiwi Peter,

Do you have a newspaper death notice? There may be a clue of some sort there for us/you to work backwards.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 04:45 BST (UK)
Without implication, a search of the Police Gazette returns a few entries for Harry Hill but none fitting the age of this person of interest.  Nothing jumps out in a search for Joseph Hill or Harold Hill.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 04:59 BST (UK)
http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/certwalter.jpg (http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/certwalter.jpg)
http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/certmine.jpg (http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/certmine.jpg)


Opps sorry about the size of those picts I have changed them to Links
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 05:09 BST (UK)
Also note that KiwiPeter has another thread here which may help with elimination etc https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17554
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 05:12 BST (UK)
KiwiPeter

Is there a chance that you have combed through the births microfiche for your father's birth in at least the approximate area for the few years it may have been?

Totally a long shot, meaning that you'd need to note possible variations etc but it is interesting that on both your, and your brother's birth certificates that he is at least in New Zealand.

Twiggy
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 06:12 BST (UK)
This looks like the grave of the couple mentioned in the link Twiggytree posted

https://www.napier.govt.nz/services/napier-cemeteries/cemetery-database/?rid=113977

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 06:55 BST (UK)
KiwiPeter

Is there a chance that you have combed through the births microfiche for your father's birth in at least the approximate area for the few years it may have been?

Totally a long shot, meaning that you'd need to note possible variations etc but it is interesting that on both your, and your brother's birth certificates that he is at least in New Zealand.

Twiggy

How would I get access to births microfiche??

Yes he would had to have been in New Zealand at least 9 months before our birth, one would have hoped. He was here in 1962 onwards for 100% sure.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 03 April 20 06:57 BST (UK)
What sort of accent did he have?
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 07:03 BST (UK)
This looks like the grave of the couple mentioned in the link Twiggytree posted

https://www.napier.govt.nz/services/napier-cemeteries/cemetery-database/?rid=113977

Cheers Janette

Unfortunately that promising link ran out prematurely. It did start looking very very promising.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 07:40 BST (UK)
Microfiche are often held at libraries in New Zealand and genealogical archives (all now in lockdown).  You need a lot of patience to methodically go through each year, and each page of the birth register to look for names.  Alongside the microfiche the facility will usually have index books that help you figure out which area that birth took place in and which part of the year.

Conversely if you look at the book first for the reference range of numbers for each quarter for that area you can 'notice' these in your search of the microfiche.

I wish I had access to one of these indexes (or a library) to show you but from memory it goes something like:

1923
Place        1stQ   2ndQ  3rdQ  4thQ
Te Kuiti      927    1256   1569   1895

These are the starting record numbers for all the births in one particular year for that area.  Each year these increment as more births take place in NZ.  The upper range of the births in that area is deduced from the next line for the next area (ie where the next area starts their registration numbers).

I do hope I have made some sense.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 07:43 BST (UK)
I wonder if the local historic society in the area your father is purported to have been born may have something to help you?  Perhaps even some personal knowledge through living locals?

http://www.nzhistoricalsocieties.org.nz/members/feilding.htm
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 07:46 BST (UK)
Harry and Prudence Hill left the UK on 22nd Nov, in 1924 aboard the Dorset  with
Ruth aged 5
Mary aged 2
Henry aged 1 and
Ann an infant

I think it was suggested that young Henry might be your Harry

The journey was 56 days


Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 07:54 BST (UK)
Re reply #36, would a school register note a middle name, or something that would help determine once and for all whether this line of enquiry was right/wrong?
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 08:00 BST (UK)
(http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/dadnotice.jpg)
http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/dadnotice.jpg (http://www.thatsnice.nz/family/dadnotice.jpg)

someone asked for dads death notice.

Can someone tell me what is an acceptable size. everythings BIG
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 08:12 BST (UK)
Have you contacted the Defence Force directly?  http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/accessing-military-service-records.htm

Would the cemetery have had to make some sort of note or enquiry as to a person's qualification to be buried in the serviceman's area?  Would there be a record of such?  Or perhaps they might know about the number assigned to him?
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 03 April 20 08:40 BST (UK)

Can someone tell me what is an acceptable size. everythings BIG

There is a helpful tutorial here for resizing photographs
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=372537.0

I usually import into gimp (other software available  :) ) and "scale image" so that the longest side is 500mm which fits nicely on the post. Generally a good size is around 150 kB. I've resized your images for you - hope that helps.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 09:48 BST (UK)
yes thank you, I use IrfanView 4.52, have done for years,
I am able to upload to my own server, so makes life easier. I shall read and digest.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 09:59 BST (UK)
Have you contacted the Defence Force directly?  http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/accessing-military-service-records.htm

Would the cemetery have had to make some sort of note or enquiry as to a person's qualification to be buried in the serviceman's area?  Would there be a record of such?  Or perhaps they might know about the number assigned to him?

I already mentioned that I had tried the NZDF and came back with nothing.
I did check re cemetery checks and it seems the undertaker is responsible. The paper work I have from the undertaker clearly shows the service number etc, BUT where that information came from I have no idea. Undertakers no longer in business I may add. I still haven't worked out why they sent the account back to the hospital. Guess one will never know.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 03 April 20 10:00 BST (UK)
Stab in the dark here, but Harold Hill cousin of the bride groom in a Feilding wedding 1944

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19440925.2.26?end_date=31-12-1945&items_per_page=10&page=2&phrase=2&query=Harold++hill&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1940
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 10:19 BST (UK)
yes that could be... I know there is a large amount of Hill's in Palm North and Fielding area. Have made contact with them sort of. Just need one of them to get back to me.
I seem to remember I saved some Salvation army pictures I located on the net, which showed a Hill in them.

I never knew my father to attend church or anything like that, BUT that does not mean he wasn't in the Salvation army at some stage in his earlier life.




Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: TwiggyTree on Friday 03 April 20 20:01 BST (UK)
That's interesting about the bill being sent to the hospital.  My only experience with this was when a person died after being admitted to hospital; and no attempt was made to find their next of kin.  They were then buried in a pauper's grave in the cemetery paid for by the 'state'.  Their death certificate listed no children but they actually had 4 or 5.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Friday 03 April 20 21:18 BST (UK)
Peter,

Were you and your brother aware your father was ill in hospital?
In days gone by there was a funeral director contracted to take care of hospital deaths where there was no obvious next of kin.Maybe this was the case hence Battersbys sending the account to the hospital.

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 03 April 20 22:19 BST (UK)
Peter,

Were you and your brother aware your father was ill in hospital?
In days gone by there was a funeral director contracted to take care of hospital deaths where there was no obvious next of kin.Maybe this was the case hence Battersbys sending the account to the hospital.

Cheers Janette

Death notice would indicate that his wife was next of kin?

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 03 April 20 23:15 BST (UK)
What sort of accent did he have?


Not sure if this question has been answered?


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Friday 03 April 20 23:24 BST (UK)
Peter,

Were you and your brother aware your father was ill in hospital?
In days gone by there was a funeral director contracted to take care of hospital deaths where there was no obvious next of kin.Maybe this was the case hence Battersbys sending the account to the hospital.

Cheers Janette

Death notice would indicate that his wife was next of kin?

Minniehaha.

But surely if the hospital contracted for this, they would use someone closer than Avondale.
Mum was not on the scene at this stage, as she had moved on to Possible husband number 3.
The undertaker placed the newspaper notices. All laid out in the papers I got from Battersby. They even filed copies of the notices. The paper work states my Younger brother arranged things, but he denies whats there in B & W. 

I did visit dad in Hospital. He had a cancer in the branch of windpipe. Caused by smoking for years and years. Theres no probate filed either that I can find on record. 
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 03 April 20 23:45 BST (UK)
Part quote reply #20......

"Considering they had been living together since 1957ish and had brought that house in 62 there abouts."

Do you know whose name(s) was on the Certificate of Title? And when the house was sold?


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Saturday 04 April 20 00:29 BST (UK)
Firstly, NO he had no accent at all.

Secondly the house was built new in 1962, and I assume they had a housing corp mortgage. Vaguely remember a little celebration much much later when paid off.
It would have been sold after his death, I know that for sure. Even the family lawyers no longer practice, so going be hard contacting them.

Thirdly,
I had contacted Veterans affairs, Kind of forgot I had done that, They sent me to the NZ defence forces.

Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 04 April 20 00:38 BST (UK)
You should contact the New Zealand Law Society (when they re-open) as they will be able to tell you who took over the practice. And who knows what other files they may hold of interest to you.

https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/about-nzls/contact-us


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 04 April 20 01:35 BST (UK)
Kiwi Peter are there any clues to be found re the death of your wee brother?

1965/24400   Hill   Trevor Ian   1Y

Also where was he buried?


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Saturday 04 April 20 02:18 BST (UK)
Trev was buried at Mangere Lawn cemetery , in a grave with 3 or 4 other children. Thats the way its done.
DETAILS OF A BURIAL IN Mangere Lawn CEMETERY
Deceased:
Last Address:
HILL, Trevor Ian
12 Beverley Place, New Lynn, Auckland
Occupation:
Gender:
Date of Death:
Place of Birth:
Age:
Date of Burial:

Plot Location:
Burial Depth:
Funeral Director:
Register Entry No.:
Infant
Male
15/03/1965
New Zealand
1
18/03/1965 Thursday
NORTH. Plot 1232
Ordinary Depth
W.H.Tongue
P.O.Box 8510
Symonds Street
AUCKLAND
Telephone: 373 2015
4737

Sorry my bad, There are in fact 6 infants in that grave..
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Saturday 04 April 20 02:25 BST (UK)

 Theres no probate filed either that I can find on record.

Did he have property etc to qualify for probate?

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Saturday 04 April 20 02:38 BST (UK)
no I guess not in the true sense.
They had the house, but I assume thats joint.
He had a lot tools. but very little value.
PushBike. No car. did everything on that bike.

So I guess nothing to be honest. I will try contact with the lawyers after lockdown. Could be weeks away.



Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Saturday 04 April 20 02:54 BST (UK)
Peter

Under those circumstances I doubt that anything went to probate even today an estate needs to be over $15,000 before it needs to go to probate.

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 04 April 20 04:02 BST (UK)
Still worth trying to find the lawyers who acted when presumably the property was transmitted to the survivor.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 04 April 20 04:21 BST (UK)
Part quote from first post........

"One reason I offer is we were brought up to call our elders aunt and Uncle.
Even neighbors so it is near impossible I would say."


Are any of those elders still alive? What about the neighbours? **Looks as if we/you are going to have to dig deep on this one. I think perhaps it might be case of 'WHO is my father'....

**Information could be obtained from the electoral rolls but don't put up the names on the forum.

Minniehaha.


Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 05 April 20 00:44 BST (UK)
I have contacted KiwiPeter about this matter and he has given me permission to put the information on the forum.

I am 'flying a kite' here. It is only a hunch, but in view of what we know and more to the point, of what we don't, I am wondering if this may be the man being sought? His death does not appear on NZ BDM but in case he may still be alive and therefore not KiwiPeter's father, I don't want to show the name.

Here are the links:

1942…..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19420827.2.79?end_date=31-12-1950&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=harry+hill&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1935&title=ALG%2cACNZC%2cAS%2cAKTIM%2cDSC%2cFRTIM%2cKWE%2cNZH%2cNZHAG%2cNZ%2cTO%2cPWT%2cROTWKG

1945……

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19451213.2.91?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=ronald+harry+hill&snippet=true

1940…..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19400726.2.18?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=ronald+harry+hill&snippet=true

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19400725.2.83?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=ronald+harry+hill&snippet=true

Police Gazette:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals?title=NZPG&start_date=01-01-1877&end_date=31-12-1945&query=ronald+harry+hill&phrase=2

[Archway is on the go slow at present.]

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 05 April 20 01:01 BST (UK)
WW2 ballot listing for Ronald Harry Hill.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 01:36 BST (UK)
all very interesting, was it possible to just change your name and the new name carries on into everything without being checked or questioned??

I mean we have court documents for the divorce. Mine and my brothers birth Certificates.

Surely there are some checks made some where along the way. If Ronald had a service number, did he in fact serve. Or was the name change to avoid that. More questions.

Thanks to those that are trying. In these troubled times it is very heartening. 
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Sunday 05 April 20 02:10 BST (UK)
He only appears in the ER once

Ronald Harry Hill 1949   Island Bay   Wellington

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 05 April 20 02:12 BST (UK)
Re the divorce documents. It was not your father obtaining a divorce, but rather your mother?

You can change your name by simply using a new one, providing it is done without fraudulent intentions.

I'm not sure what was required in the way of parental proof when it came to registering a birth, but now:

"A Registrar may accept the form signed by only 1 parent if he or she is satisfied that—
(a)
the child has only 1 parent at law; or
(b)
the other parent is unavailable.."

So, read into that what you will.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 02:34 BST (UK)
yes, I guess just dropping the first names not completely uncommon.
I tried BDM and did not come up with anyone likely. Maybe arrived on a ship. ?

I may get his death printout next week, but that be pretty much made up, like our birth certificates.

 
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Sunday 05 April 20 02:52 BST (UK)
Peter,

If Battersbys gave you all their information on file, all the details that would be on the printout should be in that information.

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 05 April 20 03:02 BST (UK)
KiwiPeter,

You decide whether this is your father, or not......

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE26665474


https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE26736115;


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 03:16 BST (UK)
Peter,

If Battersbys gave you all their information on file, all the details that would be on the printout should be in that information.

Cheers Janette

The stuff Battersby gave me is 2 x foolscap pages of hand written information, along with charges.
I am quite willing to email them to you, should you think there's something there I am missing, which would not surprise me. 
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 05 April 20 03:26 BST (UK)
Archway, i.e Police Gazettes, is very slow. In case the links above (reply #67) don't take you directly to the details about Ronald Harry Hill.....

1940, photographs on page 45.

1942, personal details on page 876.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Sunday 05 April 20 03:28 BST (UK)
Hello Peter.

From extensive research right around the world, I never cease to be amazed at how close to home, some one has an answer for me, once they know of my research endeavour. It took me 50 years to get some agricultural research papers out of Tomsk, Siberia. Only to then learn that an elderly gentleman who swam at a West Auckland beach where I went swimming, personally knew the Chief Librarian who finally replied to my emails, supplying two of the four papers, mentioned in the English, Dairy Science abstracts of 1964.

Therefore I would suggest that you follow up with enquiries about 12 Beverly Place New Lynn, and probable employment by Wormald’s [Tyco International]. Was Harry a member of any local sport or social club? [Inhouse or public]

Use the social media available to you, that allow discussion of the possibly living. Contact the NZ Fire Protection Assn, re their publications etc for info about work colleagues. Look for any Auckland branch bulletins, or history reviews of Wormald’s presence in Auckland. Social Clubs etc. Someone will still remember Harry. It's just a case of getting your quest out there.

The house that Google shows as 12 Beverly Place New Lynn is similar to “State” housing of that period. Are you sure the house was not leased / rented?

Unfortunately the Library at Henderson is closed to public visits at this time.

All the best, Alan.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 03:29 BST (UK)
yes bombed out on me a couple times, So I shall have a go later.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 03:34 BST (UK)
Yes Alan, it would been a state house, I can tell you the same house is still standing, the sections much smaller.
I did contact Wormalds, but they keep nothing after the 7 years cut off.

I did try the education board, as he was the caretaker at New Lynn school for a while at the time the baby died.
Also Hospital board as he worked as a caretaker at Auckland Hospital.
 
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 05 April 20 03:40 BST (UK)
Peter it would be best not to keep using the "QUOTE" button as it takes up a lot of unnecessary space on the forum.

Minniehaha.  :)
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Sunday 05 April 20 04:14 BST (UK)
Hi again Peter.

Re the house at 12 Beverly Place New Lynn. From the legal description on the Auckland Council GeoMaps, I feel the legal title discription has not changed since the house was noted as being built in 1962. Probably empty sections next door.  Legal title is recorded as Lot 1 DP 187352  117B / 888, 505 m2 and is now in private hands. There were many assistance schemes for those who qualified, to obtain a state house, and leases could be converted to ownership. Local libraries can hold copies of workplace publications etc, not all of which supplied copies to the Alexander Turnbal collection at Wellington. I convener / edited one annual publication for nine years. It was on behalf of just 300 members, but always had over 84 pages.

Alan.

EDIT. OOp's upon looking at supplied map there is now a 12A so property has been halved.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 05:00 BST (UK)
yes I went around there last year to get some photos. as the house as such is very little changed over the years. BUT my camera failed and I always meant to go back. I did write to the occupier at one point, but never got a reply. Not that I really expected one. Next time we visit west, from Waiuku I must swing by and see if I can get some picts. Only interested in the Outside. The young lady I spoke to last visit was renting and seemed ok about it.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Sunday 05 April 20 05:04 BST (UK)
Just Google the address. I have done so, but can not post on the open furum. If you don't know how and are prepared to supply an email address to me, feel free to PM me.  Alan.

AND EDIT an other OOP's, on returning to Google maps [street view]  the "state" house I was looking at will be number 10 Beverly Place, and number 12 who's house was built in 1962, is behind number 10, and is of a more modern design than the 1950's state house. But unfortunatey obscured by trees. Section 12 was split, and the back house 12A was built in 1999.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Janette on Sunday 05 April 20 05:34 BST (UK)
https://geomapspublic.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/viewer/index.html?task=select&entity=rateacckey&values=12341867833

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 05 April 20 08:23 BST (UK)
yes as you can see it was a large section and the back had fruit trees and dad had a large workshop down the back. All the land joining at the back of the section was farm land. Now all subdivided with new roads.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Monday 06 April 20 21:46 BST (UK)
Hi Peter.

I'll  leave the attached up for a few hours and hopefully you will see it. That is how
[in part] your message to me, appears in my recieving box.

Presumably caught in in a SPAM filter along the way.

Alan.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 07 April 20 01:39 BST (UK)
Contact successful this time. Will supply the photos and instructions re navigating Retrolens, later today.

Alan.
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: majm on Sunday 12 April 20 01:58 BST (UK)
Further searchings here on Australia Board
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828752.0

JM
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: majm on Sunday 12 April 20 02:04 BST (UK)
Is this your mother in the 1957 electoral roll

Maureen Faye Hill 1957   Ponsonby   Auckland

If so she may have just taken the Hill name

Cheers Janette

I am quoting this post on this thread because Peter has remarked (on the Australian thread) that he has not read this post. 

JM
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Sunday 12 April 20 09:18 BST (UK)
Yes sorry about that not sure how I did that.
Mum left her first husband in March 1957 according to the docs I have. So She could have been using the Hill name after that point.
So that electoral roll was compiled sometime in early 1957. the election was 30 November 1957
Title: Re: WHeres my Father.?
Post by: KiwiPeter on Tuesday 14 April 20 09:09 BST (UK)
thanks for all the help, I will a few days to take it all in and research what I can.

There is a RH Hill with a New Zealand Service number, I doubt I can do anything about researching that until after the lock down.

Don't take it wrong if I go quite for a day or so as I do have health problems that I need to stay on top off.

Kind regards
Peter