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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Kincaid444 on Sunday 29 March 20 14:07 BST (UK)
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Good afternoon all,
In would be grateful for any help poking a brick out of my brick wall - I have managed to find a birth for Leslie Bradford born 1903 (10 Apr)but no location as it wasn't the birth registration I found, just a trusted quote - and I know he married Mary Denman in 1928 registered in Hendon and they had a daughter, Lesley Alice both in Hendon, died in 1980
I also know he was living in Wealdstone in 1939 - but for the life of me I cannot find him on the 1911 census or any trace of his parents - I am handicapped by not knowing where he was born.
Family rumour is his father's name was Arthur but this could be wrong.
To be more specific I am trying not find where Leslie was born hoping it will enable me to find a census entry.
Many thanks for any help you may be able to give - and keep safe in the present imbroglio
Kincaid
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Are the daughters still living, if so you will need to remove their names.
I think you may need the marriage certificate to confirm his fathers details.
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Hi Rosie,
Thank you for the reminder - I know Lesley is for sure and almost certain the other is too, but I have removed her just in case
Re the marriage certificate, my sister is quite firm that the name Arthur is correct, but you make a good point - I should get it - I should have thought of that myself but have not done any serious research for a long time. and am a bit rusty
Kincaid
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I thought I'd have a quick look at the GRO to see how many Leslie Bradford births were registered, and there are a few.
The 1939 is well known for inaccuracies (errors?) with birth years, at least with my family. I sometimes think they forgot the year they'd been born.
But they are often around the right date with the actual birthday, so the quarter of registration for YOUR Leslie is probably Apr/May/Jun (shown as J in the GRO list)
BRADFORD, LESLIE BERNARD VICTOR PEABODY
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in ASHBY DE LA ZOUCH Volume 07A Page 114
is one possibility.
Or a bit further off with the birth year:
BRADFORD, LESLIE LEWIS WOOLLAMS
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in KING'S NORTON Volume 06C Page 519
If I were you, I'd have a squizz round at possible marriages Bradford/Peabody and Bradford/Woollams to see what turns up.....
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If that first birth ref is possibly right, then there's another child to the marriage
BRADFORD, HILDA MAY PEABODY
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in ASHBY DE LA ZOUCH Volume 07A Page 80
Just off to see if I can find her on the 1901 with the family .....
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I wonder if it is this one and they just have the year wrong on 1939. :-\
Births Mar qtr 1904
Leslie Bradford
Lewisham 1d 1233
Presumably this is your Leslies death
Leslie Bradford
Birth 10/04/1903
Death 07/1979 Brent Greater London
I will see what else if anything I can find out about him
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Well, that Hilda May is with her family in the 1911 including brother Leslie Bernard Victor (helpfully all the names shown, in Measham Leicestershire
But the father is John Henry Bradford (1877, Bradford, Yorkshire)
So how certain are you about the Arthur name?
Now going to check that other 1905 Leslie
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I wonder if it is this one and they just have the year wrong on 1939. :-\
Births Mar qtr 1904
Leslie Bradford
Lewisham 1d 1233
Presumably this is your Leslies death
Leslie Bradford
Birth 10/04/1903
Death 07/1979 Brent Greater London
I will see what else if anything I can find out about him
Yet another possible, Rosie - but that would make the birth DAY wrong on the death reg? Otherwise an April birth would be registered in the next quarter?
But in case Rosie's hit on the right Leslie, see MMN below.....
BRADFORD, LESLIE CRAUFURD
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in LEWISHAM Volume 01D Page 1233
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Just to clarify I think we can rule out the second possible birth ref I quoted, for Leslie Lewis Bradford as I can see from the 1939 that he was born on 8th May 1905.
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Spotted this while I was looking which follows on from IgorStravs post
Death Leslie Bernard V Bradford
Birth 29/03/1902
Death 10/1973 Wolverhampton Staffordshire
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Dear Igor and Rosie,
You have been so busy, and I am very grateful . . . you have certainly given me mush to digest.
Will print out tour replies and look at them tonight with a glass of Scotland's Finest and proceed from there.
Thank you so much for your time
Kincaid
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I think Rosie's Leslie Bradford is with his mother Ethel Moira Bradford (actress) aged 33 (married 8 years) in the 1911 at Darlington
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Rosie,
I am positive you got the death right - 07/1979 Brent
And the Lewisham birth right qtr buy one year out could be good . . . the birth was given from memory so it could easily be a year out.
I should get that birth cert and see if the father is an Arthur . .
Kincaid
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I think Rosie's Leslie Bradford is with his mother Ethel Moira Bradford (actress) aged 33 (married 8 years) in the 1911 at Darlington
Marriages Mar qtr 1903
Bradford William
Crawford Ethel Moir
Lewisham 1d 1129
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Snap Rosie!
not Arthur though......
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The Leslie Bradford with Ethel in 1911 is this birth: Leslie Bradford Mar.qtr.1904 Lewisham - mmn Craufurd on GRO index. However, even for allowance of wrong birth year in 1939 and at death, this birth registered in March qtr. and he is said to have a birthday of 10th April!
Annette
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This is, I believe, the William Bradford who married Ethel Moir Crawford, actress -
He's an Actor in the 1901
William Bradford
Age: 23
Est dob: abt 1878
Visitor
Male
Dob: Kent, England
Aberdare
Parish: St John
Glamorgan
Wales
Reg district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-reg district: Aberdare
ED: 19
Schedule no: 98
Piece: 5035
Folio: 111
Page: 25
Charles F Tantum 32
Lucy E Tantum 26
Beatrice W Tantum 4
Charles F Tantum 9 Months
Edwin Ramsdale 32
William Bradford 23
Herbert Deville 24
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and the same William in the 1911
but even further away from Arthur >:( ???
William Isaac Bradford
Age: 31
Estimated dob: abt 1880
Boarder
Male
PoB LEWISHAM, Middlesex, England
Parish: Islington
London
England
1 Colebrooke Row, Islington N
Married
Actor Drama
Reg dist: Islington
Reg District No: 10
Sub-reg district: Islington South East
ED: 61
Piece: 963
William Henry Bidwell 34
Bertha Bidwell 29
Thomas Bidwell 2
John Bidwell 0
Thomas Patton 48
William Isaac Bradford 31
I'm sure this is the William Bradford married to the Ethel Moir Crawford as the marriage parts of both of the 1911 censuses say the same - married 8 years,2 children 1 died.
This is him:
BRADFORD, WILLIAM ISAAC LAMBERT
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 974
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The Leslie Bradford with Ethel in 1911 is this birth: Leslie Bradford Mar.qtr.1904 Lewisham - mmn Craufurd on GRO index. However, even for allowance of wrong birth year in 1939 and at death, this birth registered in March qtr. and he is said to have a birthday of 10th April!
Annette
You are right Annette - I said that in my reply to Rosie #7
So we're still guessing.....
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My thoughts lean towards Leslie not being born as a BRADFORD,etc.
Can anyone see Mary and Les* as a couple on the London Electoral Reg?
Maureen
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My thoughts lean towards Leslie not being born as a BRADFORD,etc.
Can anyone see Mary and Les* as a couple on the London Electoral Reg?
Maureen
They're together on the 1939 Register....
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In 1930 they are shown as living at 31 Toorack Road, Harrow, not there before then.
Annette
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In 1930 they are shown as living at 31 Toorack Road, Harrow, not there before then.
Annette
They married in 1928 so maybe 1930 is the first sighting of them together.
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In 1930 they are shown as living at 31 Toorack Road, Harrow, not there before then.
Annette
They married in 1928 so maybe 1930 is the first sighting of them together.
I agree. Oh well,it was a thought.
Maureen
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I think that this one is really only going to be solved by a certificate (or two)....
You can sometimes do without, but unless Kinkaid has some other family hints (eg siblings for Leslie, mention of what his father did etc) it's all guesswork.
Sounds as if the 1928 marriage certificate is owned by someone in the family so perhaps an occupation for Leslie's father might throw further light?
Do keep us posted, Kincaid. In true form, I got quite interested in the actors William Isaac Bedford and Ethel Moir Crawford who are probably completely the wrong people :o
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I think that this one is really only going to be solved by a certificate (or two)....
< bits snipped here>
In true form, I got quite interested in the actors William Isaac Bedford and Ethel Moir Crawford who are probably completely the wrong people :o
LOL!
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Good morning Igor,
The Welsh connection is interesting, as I know Leslie bride's family originated in Wales . . .
I am going to contact my sister to find out if the marriage cert is in her hands and if not I will certainly order one
Thank you and Rosie for your assistance too - and Anette7 too of course
Kincaid
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Good morning Igor and Rosie,
Sorry for the delay in getting back - I was trying to find Leslie Bradford who married Mary Denman in Hendon 1928 - I order to try to find the right person, you suggested I try to get some particulars that would be on the marriage certificate - I have discovered that his father, Arthur Bradford, was deceased by the time of the marriage in 1928, and that he had followed the profession of commercial traveler.
I hope you are both well and keeping safe from the visa, which was not even on the horizon when I first posted . .
Kincaid
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Good morning Igor and Rosie,
Sorry for the delay in getting back - I was trying to find Leslie Bradford who married Mary Denman in Hendon 1928 - I order to try to find the right person, you suggested I try to get some particulars that would be on the marriage certificate - I have discovered that his father, Arthur Bradford, was deceased by the time of the marriage in 1928, and that he had followed the profession of commercial traveler.
I hope you are both well and keeping safe from the visa, which was not even on the horizon when I first posted . .
Kincaid
Aha, thanks for the update Kincaid!
So
either
Leslie Bradford DID have a father Arthur Bradford, a commercial traveller (in which case Leslie cannot be the one who is the son of William Isaac Bradford and Ethel Moir Crawford/Crauford)
or
he was illegitimate and made up the name for his father (is this less likely in 1928 than it would be in the 19th century?) and Bradford is his mother's surname
or
Arthur Bradford was his stepfather, and he was not born Leslie Bradford but another surname
Maureen previously suggested that he wasn't born a Bradford.
There will be other possibilities, doubtless.
Kincaid - do you know who the witnesses were on the wedding certificate? Sometimes they are family members which can give a clue.
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Assuming firstly that Leslie wasn't born under the name Bradford:
two baptisms for dob 10/4/1903:
Leslie Vernon Roberts
Birth
10/04/1903
Baptism
31/05/1903 England
Saint Paul, Hammersmith,
parents Alfred and Margaret
Leslie Morris Mitson
Birth
10/04/1903
Baptism
07/06/1903 Essex England
Great Wakering, St Nicholas
parents William Shall Mitson and Joyce
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For some reason the name Leslie became a lot more popular by 1904!
Many more Leslie baptisms. However Ancestry is only sorting them by baptism date of 10/4 which of course will be too early for our Leslie.
Will look at the two initial 1903 ones first
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Assuming firstly that Leslie wasn't born under the name Bradford:
two baptisms for dob 10/4/1903:
Leslie Vernon Roberts
Birth
10/04/1903
Baptism
31/05/1903 England
Saint Paul, Hammersmith,
parents Alfred and Margaret
Looks like this Leslie died at sea in 1940
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Assuming firstly that Leslie wasn't born under the name Bradford:
two baptisms for dob 10/4/1903:
Leslie Morris Mitson
Birth
10/04/1903
Baptism
07/06/1903 Essex England
Great Wakering, St Nicholas
parents William Shall Mitson and Joyce
And this Leslie died in 1970.
Back to the drawing board. But useful hopefully to rule out
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Good morning Igor . . gosh, you don't hang about . . . I will get va check on the marriage witnesses as you suggest.
Many thanks
Kincaid . .
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Good morning Igor . . gosh, you don't hang about . . . I will get va check on the marriage witnesses as you suggest.
Many thanks
Kincaid . .
Also-could you see if there is an address listed for Leslie on the marriage cert?
Maureen