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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Broze on Sunday 29 March 20 05:53 BST (UK)
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Hello
Its been a long time since I visited here and made my one and only post some time ago. Anyway, now I have a little more time to research my families history, (which I'm terrible at by the way). So thought I'd get back into it and fingers crossed somebody on here may be able to help, or even better still actually be related?
Anyway, I am hitting a brick wall with my older surviving family members, not many seem to remember much.
My Grandmothers side was from the Barker family in Darlington England, and my Grandads side were I believe from Manchester England. My Grandmothers father was called Robert, he or his father had a chocolate shop and also stables where they broke in horses and apparently trained them for Buffalo Bill, - at least that's what I've been told anyway. Not sure if its all true or not. Grandma was born in 1923. I am unsure of her mothers maiden name.
As for the Ambrose side, my Grandad had a couple of brothers, who joined the Irish guards where as he joined the RAF. His name was William and was born in 1920 I believe. His mothers maiden name is Slane and was from Sligo in Ireland (I think). I'm not sure if my Grandad was from there or was from Manchester.
I have also joined Ancestry to have a look too, but there is a lot of people with similar names so I'm a little stuck with going any further.
I am wondering if on the off chance, anybody here might be related, or perhaps be able to point me in the right direction?
Any help much appreciated, and in the mean time I'm going to keep having a nosey around the Forum.
Thanks
Ant
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Best to start on surnames interest board at bottom of page.
Do you have any certificates for these people?
Have you checked here?https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Or https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
You will need to check resources board for each county.
Have you checked 1939 register?
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Is this their marriage?
Marriages Mar 1942 (>99%)
Ambrose William Barker Darlington 10a 84
Barker Dorothy Ambrose Darlington 10a 84
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William Ambrose with mother SLANE was born a Greater Manchester reg.
July qtr 8D 519
(You can find it on Ancestry) Later in the year (after 100 hrs is up) it will show on the GRO site
www.gro.gov.uk
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Only SLANE/Ambrose marriage I can see
Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Ambrose Michael Joseph Manchester 8d 418
Slane Mary Ann Manchester 8d 418
But you can’t assume, without certificates.
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For that couple
Williams WW1 record is on FindMyPast
RAF
Born 1879
Married 18 Oct 1902
Children
Joseph 2 May 1903
John 6 July 1906
Charles 31. March 1909
Thomas Gerard 26 Jan 1916
Mary 25 April 1917
Description 5ft 6 1/2 inches
Brown hair, hazel eyes, pale complexion, slightly bow legged, scar left hand side of jaw.
Address 19 Rigel(?) st, Oldham Road, Manchester
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1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW1W-B8Y
AMBROSE, JOSEPH mmn SLANE
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 226
AMBROSE, WILLIAM mmn SLANE death Sep 1905
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 205
AMBROSE, JOHN mmn SLANE
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 217
AMBROSE, CHARLES mmn SLANE
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 217
AMBROSE, THOMAS mmn SLANE death Sep 1910
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 193
AMBROSE, THOMAS GERARD mmn SLANE
GRO Reference: 1916 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 306
AMBROSE, MARY mmn SLANE
GRO Reference: 1917 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 349
AMBROSE William mmn SLANE
Sep 1920 Manchester 8d 519
AMBROSE Robert mmn SLANE
Sep 1922 Manchester 8d 441
Jamjar
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1901, father is also Michael born Lancashire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X929-435
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If William was born 1922, then there is a problem with the William born 1905, for whom I can’t see a death.
Jamjar
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William b 1905 doesn’t appear on the WW1 record, so he must have died, also 1911 says 5 children born, 3 surviving, accounted for in the 1911. No William
The other one who died must be the 1910 Thomas
Birth
AMBROSE, MICHAEL JOSEPH POWER
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 297
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Maybe
Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%)
AMBROSE William 0 Prestwich 8d 277
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Marriage
Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
AMBROSE Michael Manchester 8d 564
Power Annie Manchester 8d 564
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Maybe
Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%)
AMBROSE William 0 Prestwich 8d 277
Sounds good.
Jamjar
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Maybe
Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%)
AMBROSE William 0 Prestwich 8d 277
Sounds good.
Jamjar
Think Mary Ann’s family lived in Prestwich reg district.
Her birth
SLANE, MARY ANN GALLAGHER
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in PRESTWICH Volume 08D Page 384
With Gallagher grandparents in 1891
James & Mary Gallagher
Mary Gallagher is the one who was from Sligo, ;D. You can see census for yourself on Ancestry.
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Her parents?
Marriages Sep 1876 (>99%)
Gallagher Mary Manchester 8d 447
SLANE William Manchester 8d 447
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Dec 1921 Darlington Darlington 10a 23
BARKER Harold F
PARKINSON Sarah A
BARKER Dorothy mmn PARKINSON
Sep 1923 Darlington 10a 81
A son, A, in 1928 and a daughter, I, in 1933. Could still be living.
Deaths:
Sep 1967 Darlington 1A 181
BARKER Harold F 66
Jun 1959 Darlington 1a 199
BARKER Sarah A 57
Jamjar
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OP says Dorothy’s father was a Robert :(
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OP says Dorothy’s father was a Robert :(
Mm, yes they do.
Jamjar
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Marriages Mar 1923 (>99%)
Barker Robert Hughes Darlington 10a 15
Hughes Doris M Barker Darlington 10a 15
Birth Dec qtr 1923
Barker Dorothy Hughes Darlington 10a 50
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Marriages Mar 1923 (>99%)
Barker Robert Hughes Darlington 10a 15
Hughes Doris M Barker Darlington 10a 15
Birth Dec qtr 1923
Barker Dorothy Hughes Darlington 10a 50
Don’t know how I missed that birth. I can see it now. ;D
Jamjar
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Father Robert, mother Doris:
Dec 1924 son L R
Sep 1926 daughter R M
Dec 1936 son D B
Jun 1938 son B R
I think the 1939 register is the way to go forward, in order to go backwards.
Jamjar
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stables where they broke in horses and apparently trained them for Buffalo Bill
I like the look of this in 1901
Drivers Inn, Harrogate Hill, Darlington, all born Darlington
Robert Barker, head, 42, inn Keeper & Horse Breaker
Frances Barker wife 38
John Barker son 18
Robert Barker son 16
Richard son 5
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stables where they broke in horses and apparently trained them for Buffalo Bill
I like the look of this in 1901
Drivers Inn, Harrogate Hill, Darlington, all born Darlington
Robert Barker, head, 42, inn Keeper & Horse Breaker
Frances Barker wife 38
John Barker son 18
Robert Barker son 16
Richard son 5
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHC-SZR
Marriage:
Dec 1881 Darlington 10a 27
BARKER Robert
WRIGHTSON Frances
BARKER, JOHN mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 8
BARKER, WILLIAM mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 17
BARKER, ROBERT mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 3
BARKER, MARY LILIAN mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 18
BARKER, GEORGE DIXON mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1894 J Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 3
BARKER, ROBERT mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 33
BARKER, RICHARD WRIGHTSON mmn WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 35
Jamjar
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BARKER, RICHARD WRIGHTSON WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 35
BARKER, JOHN WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 8
BARKER, ROBERT WRIGHTSON
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 3
Modified, sorry JJ didn’t see you had Richard
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Find a grave.
Robert , Frances and others.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186069524#view-photo=164658787
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I added the other children. There was a second so Robert born.
Jamjar
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Robert who married Doris has a first wife, the Alice Ada who died 1917
Here in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHC-SZ1
Modified to add she was Alice Ada WRIGHT
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I added the other children. There was a second so Robert born.
Jamjar
And died
BARKER, ROBERT 0
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in DARLINGTON Volume 10A Page 16
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Robert who married Doris has a first wife, the Alice Ada who died 1917
Here in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHC-SZ1
I did wonder about that myself.
Not to add a spanner to the works, re: the births I put up:
Dec 1880 Darlington 10a 15
BARKER George Dixon
WRIGHTSON Hannah
Jamjar
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I wonder if there are two Barker Wrightson couples as in the 1911 Frances and Robert clearly say 3 live births and 3 living and they wrote all the names down then crossed out Robert because he wasn’t with them.
Added... of course there are, that’s what you have just posted! Getting late :)
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William and Mary Lilian are George’s. So, must be the Robert who died 1895.
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSHP-5XR
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHZ-R7V
Jamjar
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Dec 1844 Darlington 24 47
BARKER Ralph
DIXON Sarah
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGJL-8W1
1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7HX-J4N
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDZ1-24R
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27B-571B
BARKER, THOMAS mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1845 S Quarter in NORTHALLERTON UNION Volume 24 Page 450
BARKER, MARY JANE mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in OF DARLINGTON UNION Volume 24 Page 46
BARKER, JOHN mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1849 D Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 24 Page 63
BARKER, JOSEPH mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 2
BARKER, SARAH ANN mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1854 J Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 3
BARKER, WILLIAM mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 11
BARKER, ROBERT mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 19
BARKER, GEORGE DIXON mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 1
Deaths:
Dec 1884 Darlington 10a 6
BARKER Ralph 66
Dec 1888 10a 3
BARKER Sarah 66
Jamjar
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George Dixon b 1894 and died 1894 baptised
George Dixon Barker
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 3 Apr 1894
Baptism Place: Holy Trinity, Darlington, Durham, England
Father: George Dixon Barker
Mother: Hannah
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Hannah and Frances Wrightson ARE sisters.
Daughters of John Marshall WRIGHTSON
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WOW.
Thanks for all these replies! I really didn't expect to hear any this soon. I'm going to have a nosey through them all and read them properly in the morning. Just wanted to take a look and say Thankyou.
There is some more info I have, My Grandma (Barker) had a brother and a sister, her brother was D Barker and moved to New Zealand where he was a pilot I believe. She also had a sister R Barker who moved to London. Or at least somewhere local to London, not sure if it was in the centre or not.
Also from looking on Ancestry a little if the documents I've seen are for the correct Barkers who are related, then they a name of Hughes maybe her mothers Maiden name, and if that is true then she was also married to Robert Barker. Whos Dad was also called Robert Barker (apparently).
These names cannot be confirmed by any of my family, so I don't know if it's the right ones or not.
As for Grandad (Ambrose), he also had a few brothers, unsure of the names, but one of my cousins seem to think he one was called Jerry or Gerry.
Thanks again for all your replies, I'll take another read through tomorrow and reply properly. Nothing much else to do during this lockdown anyway.
Stay safe people and thanks again, all your help is very much appreciated!
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See Reply #20.
You are not permitted to list names of those who you do not know to be deceased. Hence the use of only initials in the previous reply. You need to remove their names from your post, unless you are certain they are deceased.
You will find their names on FreeBMD.
The AMBOSE family are in Reply #6. I would say that Gerry was Thomas Gerard Ambrose.
A word of caution, if you are looking at family trees on Ancestry, do not believe all you see.
Jamjar
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See Reply #20.
You are not permitted to list names of those who you do not know to be deceased. Hence the use of only initials in the previous reply. You need to remove their names from your post, unless you are certain they are deceased.
You will find their names on FreeBMD.
The AMBOSE family are in Reply #6. I would say that Gerry was Thomas Gerard Ambrose.
A word of caution, if you are looking at family trees on Ancestry, do not believe all you see.
Jamjar
Edited it now, thanks for pointing that out.
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stables where they broke in horses and apparently trained them for Buffalo Bill
I like the look of this in 1901
Drivers Inn, Harrogate Hill, Darlington, all born Darlington
Robert Barker, head, 42, inn Keeper & Horse Breaker
Frances Barker wife 38
John Barker son 18
Robert Barker son 16
Richard son 5
Thankyou very much for this!!
I received an email from my cousin this morning who has also done some digging in the past, and he sent me some photos. Which say: -
Picture one: - Robert and Frances Barker outside the Drovers Inn, Darlington 1906. (My Grandma Dorothy's Grandad and Grandma who trained the horses for Buffalo Bill.
Picture 2 was her Dad, Robert Barker Junior who was the Chocolate King of the North.
Picture 3 was from a fair where they had a stand displaying their Chocolate.
So the info you have provided is a match.
I need to add these to the tree now and try and get some more info if possible.
Will also need to go through all the other replies you guys have sent me, which again - I really appreciate.
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Find a grave.
Robert , Frances and others.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186069524#view-photo=164658787
Would the year of birth be correct on the gravestone for Frances (1859)? I'm only asking because on the 1901 census link posted, it said the year of birth was 1861 estimated?
(Sorry if this is a 'Newbie' question).
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Either could be a bit out.
They weren’t as fixated on their ages back then. Many people only knew their approximate age. Often in censuses you can see a huge variation in estimated age.
Eg 37 in one , then say 41 in the next. (If only we could age as slowly)
1859 v 1861 is VERY close.
Added, I usually work on the earlier census being more likely to be correct, or closer to the truth anyway. Especially if a lot of children.
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Either could be a bit out.
They weren’t as fixated on their ages back then. Many people only knew their approximate age. Often in censuses you can see a huge variation in estimated age.
Eg 37 in one , then say 41 in the next. (If only we could age as slowly)
1859 v 1861 is VERY close.
Added, I usually work on the earlier census being more likely to be correct, or closer to the truth anyway. Especially if a lot of children.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm adding all this information to the family tree, and thanks to you guys, I've made more progress now. Can see going further back, is going to become a problem though.
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Is this their marriage?
Marriages Mar 1942 (>99%)
Ambrose William Barker Darlington 10a 84
Barker Dorothy Ambrose Darlington 10a 84
Sadly I don't know the answer to that. I am unsure what year they got married, or if the wedding was in Darlington where my Grandma was from or in Manchester where Grandad was from.
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Here is France’s birth
WRIGHTSON, FRANCES HEDLEY
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 12
Yes, that Ambrose/Barker marriage IS theirs, we have confirmed that with the subsequent working.
That question was just us getting going,and it was conceivable that you might have already had that information.
To confirm for sure you would need to buy one of their children’s birth certificates.
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You should be able to work back at least into the late 1700s on some of those lines.
The Irish stuff always gets difficult.
But the Barkers and Wrightsons look quite promising. Especially as the Barkers go into Yorkshire and there are some good records for Yorkshire,
You might want to keep an eye out for a free trial of FindMyPast.
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Fortunately France’s father John Marshall Wrightson liked to add the Marshall, there are newspaper entries (these are on a FindMyPast or you can have a separate sub to British Newspaper Archive).
Eg
17 April 1847 - Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury
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Here is France’s birth
WRIGHTSON, FRANCES HEDLEY
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in DARLINGTON UNION Volume 10A Page 12
Yes, that Ambrose/Barker marriage IS theirs, we have confirmed that with the subsequent working.
That question was just us getting going, and it was conceivable that you might have already had that information.
To confirm for sure you would need to buy one of their children’s birth certificates.
Thankyou (again). ;D
Is there a link in your post? If there is, its not displaying for me. I have searched Ancestry, but can only find a Mary Wrightson which is showing she had a daughter called Sarah J?
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No, there was no link, that is the GRO reference for Frances’s birth.
The HEDLEY is her mother’s maiden name
Free to register and search
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
You can use the GRO index to find the rest of the children, there may well be some that were born and died between censuses. It’s helpful to run a preliminary scan on www.freeBMD.org.uk as the GRO you can only do in 5 yr batches.
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I’m desperately trying not to spoil your fun, but if you are looking at trees on ancestry you can see there are two schools of thought for the parents of Mary HEDLEY
However, here is the marriage licence as she was under age, consent is given by her uncle Richard Paverley
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67L3-M68?i=125&cc=1675690&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQ2CY-TL94
Confirms her parents must have been.
her father Richard, a blacksmith and her mother Sarah nee Paverley who had both died (1845 & 1846 respectively). Notices in newspaper for both those deaths.
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. I have searched Ancestry, but can only find a Mary Wrightson which is showing she had a daughter called Sarah J?
Search using John Marshall WRIGHTSON
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Buffalo Bill visited Manchester in 1903
https://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=4914&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&session=pass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData%7CAdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=buffalo+bill&QueryOption=Anywhere
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I’m desperately trying not to spoil your fun, but if you are looking at trees on ancestry you can see there are two schools of thought for the parents of Mary HEDLEY
However, here is the marriage licence as she was under age, consent is given by her uncle Richard Paverley
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67L3-M68?i=125&cc=1675690&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQ2CY-TL94
Confirms her parents must have been.
her father Richard, a blacksmith and her mother Sarah nee Paverley who had both died (1845 & 1846 respectively). Notices in newspaper for both those deaths.
Thankyou very much for all your help so far!
I have also received a bit more info about the Barker side (my Grandmothers) again from my cousin, so I contacted a newspaper to confirm what he said was true and it is. The details from the first post, plus a front page article about the family in 1999. Hopefully now, I can go back even further.
My Grandads side though, I think that will be a different story. Probably more like a nightmare actually.
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. I have searched Ancestry, but can only find a Mary Wrightson which is showing she had a daughter called Sarah J?
Search using John Marshall WRIGHTSON
Thanks 8)
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Buffalo Bill visited Manchester in 1903
https://images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=4914&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&session=pass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=%2Findex.php%3Fsession%3Dpass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData%7CAdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=buffalo+bill&QueryOption=Anywhere
Interesting. Thanks for this.
I'm going to read into this one too 8)
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Please could somebody help with this next part?
Is Dolly referring to Doris? I found a Doris Hughes on Ancestry and from posts here etc, I think I've got the right lady?
Also Robert Junior had an wife from a first marriage called Alice who he had six children with and five with Dolly who I am assuming is Doris?
Its getting a little overwhelming now. I never realised the family was this big. They had a lot of kids back then didn't they?
I've attached a copy and paste which it wouldn't let me post here as there was too many characters
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Interesting article
A Tiller girl! Do you dance?
Yes Dolly is a diminutive for both Doris & Dorothy
See reply #26 for the first marriage of Robert Barker junior and link to 1911. That’s two children
1 more (John George) and his wife is on that grave stone of the older Robert, Frances Wrightson and Alice Ada preciously linked and that you have seen.
If you look on freeBMD and put Barker in the surname, Wright in mother surname, select district to Darlington and the year range from 1911 (John George) to 1917 when Alice died, you will get the other 3.
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I don’t think anyone has yet explicitly warned you.
Do not assume the trees on Ancestry are correct. ALWAYS check each step.
Some steps can only be confirmed by buying certificates.
Do check the galleries on other trees, sometimes you strike it lucky and find they have posted the relevant documents (sometimes the document proves the tree owner has it wrong but haven’t noticed!j.
Eg. I have no idea who Doris M Hughes is. Even though we know her actual birth date from the 1939 register. There are no Doris M Hughes in the births for that quarter, and no Doris, no M, Hughes in Darlington.
So...you will have to buy her marriage certificate, and hopefully she had a father (ie wasn’t illegitimate) who she named, so then you have a chance of finding her on the 1911 census with parents.
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I don’t think anyone has yet explicitly warned you.
Do not assume the trees on Ancestry are correct. ALWAYS check each step.
Some steps can only be confirmed by buying certificates.
Do check the galleries on other trees, sometimes you strike it lucky and find they have posted the relevant documents (sometimes the document proves the tree owner has it wrong but haven’t noticed!j.
Eg. I have no idea who Doris M Hughes is. Even though we know her actual birth date from the 1939 register. There are no Doris M Hughes in the births for that quarter, and no Doris, no M, Hughes in Darlington.
So...you will have to buy her marriage certificate, and hopefully she had a father (ie wasn’t illegitimate) who she named, so then you have a chance of finding her on the 1911 census with parents.
Thanks for this.
I have found a few trees on others profiles who have similar names from other parts of the country. So haven't included them. I have added a few that have matched the people found through what you guys have helped me with on here though.
Somehow I added a Doris as my Grandma's mother. Robert Barker juniors wife. Not exactly sure where I got that from though, maybe off here, I'm not sure. I'll scroll back and have a look.
It was probably a suggestion via Ancestry.
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Doris is his wife.
By “no idea who she is” I meant which birth is hers, and who her family is.
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Doris is his wife.
By “no idea who she is” I meant which birth is hers, and who her family is.
Thankyou
That's still more than I knew before joining here.
I'm learning more each day.
Thankyou very much for your help so far