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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: bantman on Friday 27 March 20 19:44 GMT (UK)
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Hi All
I'm trying to find any information about a Charles Alfred Palmer plumber/decorater. I presume he was born around 1840ish
He was the father of Charles Alfred Palmer who was born 1865, not sure where? But died Dec 1890 Wandsworth aged 25, not long after he married Ada Emmeline Wire on 13th June 1886 St John Walworth. She was born in 1867 Colchester.
Any help would be greatly received
Many Thanks
Bantman
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Just putting in random people to start with
There is a Charles Palmer, father Charles date of birth given as 4 July 1865. Address 17 Princes Sq in
London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
There are these two births
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
PALMER, CHARLES ALFRED NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 248
PALMER, CHARLES ALFRED -
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in Volume 03B Page 170 Occasional Copy: A
Unfortunately there are lots and lots of Charles births (no Alfred)
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This looks a likely candidate in 1871
Cottage Place, Lambeth. All born Lambeth except as stated
Charles Palmer 32 - house painer b Christ Church, Surrey
Emma Palmer 26 - b Grays, Essex
Emma Palmer 7
Charles Palmer 6 <<<
William Palmer 2
Louisa Aslet 19 sister in law, servant
1871 Census; RG10/647 / 38 p 24
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Except the son appears to be Charles James
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Many thanks Mabel and Mckah
Thanks for your replies.
Interestingly a witness at there wedding was a Emma Palmer !
The problem I've been having is there's alot of Charles Palmer's that fit but there's always something that doesn't quite match up !
Thanks though haven't seen these before
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Interestingly there's a marriage in 1882, also at St John Walworth of an Emma Palmer b c1863, father Charles Alfred Palmer, decorator. One witness is Emma Palmer, who makes her mark. Other is C A Palmer - whose signature looks like the witness to Charles & Ada's marriage
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Hi, possibly the Charles Palmer 41 occ Decorator in Lambeth 1881
Census ref RG11/584/33/9
Keyboard86
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1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRFX-LXR
Jun 1862 Lambeth 1d 389
PALMER Charles
ASLETT Emma
PALMER, EMMA REBECCA mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 268
PALMER, CHARLES JAMES mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 262
PALMER, WILLIAM mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 266
Jamjar
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Hi, possibly the Charles Palmer 41 occ Decorator in Lambeth 1881
Census ref RG11/584/33/9
Keyboard86
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-XY9P
Jamjar
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1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRFX-LXR
Jun 1862 Lambeth 1d 389
PALMER Charles
ASLETT Emma
PALMER, EMMA REBECCA mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 268
PALMER, CHARLES JAMES mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 262
PALMER, WILLIAM mmn ASLETT
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 266
Married 9 Jun 1862 St Andrew, Lambeth
Charles Palmer 22 Plumber & glazier
father Samuel same occupation
Emma Aslett 19 father James lighterman
Edit to add
1851c Piece: 1570 Folio: 435 Page Number: 7
Samuel Palmer 40 plumber
Eliza Palmer 36
William Palmer 13
CHARLES Palmer 10
Louisa Palmer 6
Esther Palmer 3
1861 c Piece: 350 Folio: 104 Page Number: 34
El? Palmer Wid 45
CHARLES Palmer 21 Christchurch occ Painter
Louse Palmer 16
Esther Palmer 13
Elizebeth Palmer 9
Elen Palmer 5
Elizebeth Palmer niece 19
PALMER, CHARLES mn SKELLOM
1840 M Quarter in SAINT SAVIOURS UNION Volume 04 Page 456
Marriage 21 Jun 1835 St. Mary's Lambeth, Surrey
Samuel Palmer
Spouse: Eliza Skellom, a minor
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I think this is the family of PALMER/NEWMAN. Father Charles is a Plumber/Painter.
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFFX-5DT
PALMER, HARRIOT mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01 Page 15
PALMER, GEORGE JOHN mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 212
PALMER, WILLIAM mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 189
PALMER, EMILY ANN mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 206
PALMER, JAMES JOHN mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 212
PALMER, GEORGE EDWARD mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 276
PALMER, CHARLES ALFRED mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 248
Is there a ‘next’ page for the 1871?
In 1851 and 1861 there is Charles born Frome wife is Emma:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGF6-3GJ
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-VRLX
Jun 1848 Shoreditch 2 319
PALMER Charles
PIKE Emma
PALMER, GEORGE WILLIAM mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT Volume 02 Page 388
PALMER, MARY ANN mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in ST LUKE CHELSEA Volume 03 Page 47
PALMER, CHARLES HENRY mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 01C Page 33
PALMER, ELIZABETH JANE mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 296
PALMER, WILLIAM mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 315
PALMER, GEORGE ALFRED mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 351
Jamjar
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Marriage detail Charles Palmer to Emma PIKE
Charles Palmer full age painter
Father Late George Palmer butcher
7 May 1848 St Mary, Haggerston, Hackney
Spouse: Emma Pike full age father Late Wm Pike dealer
both single, both signed their names
Witnesses Alfred Pike & Elizabeth Palmer
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Thanks everyone lots to digest here
I think a strong candidate is Palmer/Newman .......Palmer / Skellom looks interesting ....I think I've discounted Palmer / Adler even though it's such a good fit but, Charles James is a deal breaker for me.
Thanks again for your lookups
Back to the cross referencing 😁
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For info..... baptism Palmer/Pike children
William Palmer
Elizabeth Jane Palmer reported born 26th July 1853
Charles Henry Palmer reported born 12th April 1852
Mary Ann Palmer reported born 17th Oct 1850
Father: Charles Palmer occ Painter Mother: Emma abode Grove Passage
All above baptisms on same day 13 Jan 1856 St John Hackney
George Alfred Palmer Baptism 28 Oct 1860 St John, Hackney
Father: Charles Palmer , painter Mother: Emma abode Grove Passage
Not found anything on Palmer/Newman children
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I think this is the family of PALMER/NEWMAN.
Father Charles is a Plumber/Painter.
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFFX-5DT
I have included transcript of the above 1871 census and other censuses with
Charles Palmer born c1824 Frome Somerset
1841 census Frome Somerset HO107; Piece: 942; Page: 1
Sarah PALMER 46
Charles 17 apprentice Painter
Elizabeth 15
Louisa 13
Jane 11
William 8
All noted as born in this county
possible baptism for Charles above at St John Frome Somerset 24 Feb 1824
Charles PALMER Father George, butcher Mother Sarah abode Vicarage Street
1851 Chelsea Piece: 1474 Folio: 8 Page Number: 8
Charles PALMER 27 Frome Somerset Painter & Glazier
EMMA 27 Frome Somerset
George William 2 Shoreditch
Mary Ann 5 Mo Chelsea
possible baptism for Emma above
Emma PIKE on 21 Feb 1824 St John the Baptist Frome Somerse
Father William Mother Lydia abode Behind Town
1861 Hackney Grove Passage Piece: 157 Folio: 30 Page Number: 9
Charles PALMER 38 Frome Somerset , Painter Glasier
EMMA 38 Frome Somerset
Mary Ann 10 Chelsea
Charles 8 Moorfields
Elizth 7 Hackney
William 5 ditto
George 6 mth ditto
Emma Graffin Visitor 46 Governess
1871 Piece: 1609 Folio: 76 Page Number: 3
Charles PALMER 47 Frome Somerset Plumber & Painter
MARY 44 Staple Ashton Wiltshire
Charles 18 City of London Plumber & Painter
William 15 Hackney ditto
George 10 ditto
1881 Ingles Lane Doddington Cambridgeshire Piece: 1689 Folio: 72 Page 37
Charles PALMER (Snr.) 57 Frome Somerset Plumber Painter
MARY 53 Steeple Ashton Wilts
William 25 Hackney
George Alfred 20 ditto
Charlotte WEBB sister in law W 57 Steeple Ashton Wilts
The Will of Charles Palmer plumber & glazier Late of Doddington died 24 Feb 1883
Probate Date: 5 Sep 1883
Sole executrix widow Mary Palmer
Probate Registry: Peterborough
1891 Doddington Cambridge Piece: 1300 Folio: 160
Charlotte WEBB Head Wid Steeple Ashton
Mary PALMER Sister Wid 68 ditto
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PALMER, CHARLES ALFRED mmn NEWMAN
1864 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 248
I think a strong candidate is Palmer/Newman .......Palmer / Skellom looks interesting
The only baptism I can find to match the above birth reg.
Charles Alfred Palmer born 4th Sept. Bpt 16 Oct 1864 St Paul Wilton Place Knightsbridge
Parents Frederick Henry porter & Maria, 3 Kinnerton Street
21st Jan 1849 St John, Notting Hill, Kensington and Chelsea
Frederick Henry PALMER f/a, fruitier father William, labourer
Maria NEWMAN f/a father John De Champ Newman, Gentleman
She made her mark (x)
Witnesses John Newman & Mary Anne Newman
1851 census Piece: 1477 Folio: 56 Page Number: 4
Frederc PALMER 28 Marylebone, Porter
Maria 25
Fred H 2
Harrit 2 Mo
Betty Pratley Servant 14
Fredrick Hy Palmer age 7
Harriet Palmer age 5 1/2
Admission 6 Oct 1856
School: St Paul's School
Father: Fredrick Henry Palmer, Greengrocer
Mother: Maria abode 3 Kinnerton Street
Frederick Henry PALMER Sep 1849 Chelsea Volume: 3 Page: 36 mmn NEWMAN
16th Aug 1885 St Mark Church, North Audley Street
Charles Alfred PALMER age 21 greengrocer
father Frederick Henry Palmer, greengrocer
Teresa PRATLEY age 25
father John Thomas Pratley, bricklayer
Witnesses F. H Palmer & Emma Pratley
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Thanks for all the info folks
I've done lots of cross referencing and have a conundrum for you
Charles Alfred Palmer married Ada Emmmeline Wire June 13 1886 Walworth
They had two children Arthur Charles Palmer B 1888 Lambeth and Charles Alfred Palmer B 1890 Battersea D 1892 Wandsworth. Then Ada had another child Mabel Palmer in 1898.
I have Arthur Charles Palmer's (copy) Marriage certificate to Jane Charlotte Evans which says his father ( deceased ) is Arthur Charles not Charles Alfred however I have Ada, Widow, Arthur Charles, Mabel, and Jane Charlotte Evans boarder, all living together at 9 Gaywood Street in 1911 .....Arthur and Jane got married July 1912 Southwark ....
My question is are there mistakes made on these documents ? to be fair Arthur Charles would never have known his father..... could it have been written down wrong ? I'm sure Ada would have been at the wedding and would have remembered he husbands name ! Its a conundrum ...
I've got overwhelming evidence that they are all related (which is in addition to the above) and I'm not one to change names to suit, but this ones got me scratching my head !!
Love to know your thoughts ....
Cheers Bantman