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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: geniespot on Friday 20 March 20 15:34 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I hope somebody will be able to help me with this.Unfortunately the cap badge goes out of focus when it is enlarged.
This is my grandfather Samuel Iles of St George Bristol. I'm guessing the date of the photo is 1917 from the date of birth of his son, born that year, who is shown as a baby on his mother's lap in the full photo. In this way I hope to access any Great War records (if they still exist). I can find no details of him on the military records info on Ancestry or FindMyPast, There were a lot of soldiers with the same name born in this part of Bristol.
Thanks a lot.
Geniespot
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It looks like the Royal Horse Artillery cap badge to me.
Philip
ADDED: However - the Medal Index Cards only have two ILES in the RHA - Gunner 57128 Herbert ILES, and Bombardier 460 Leslie Mellington ILES.
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The RHA wear/wore the standard Royal Artillery cap badge on the service dress cap not the RHA cypher.
Can't though suggest an alternative at the mo.
MaxD
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The RHA wear/wore the standard Royal Artillery cap badge on the service dress cap not the RHA cypher.
Can't though suggest an alternative at the mo.
MaxD
I am not knowledgeable enough to put a precise date on the uniform (though Great War is my bet). I am wondering how many varieties of Artillery cap badges there were (for example West Riding below), and if a pre-1914 soldier might have worn an earlier version during the Great War.
If the photograph is definitely Samuel Iles then the MICs have no record of him in the RHA so the question is moot (unless he ended up in the Labour Corps or another unit).
I suppose one way to approach the Samuel Iles question would be to btrawl through the MICs to check for every S or Samuel Iles, then check every regiment's cap badge - but that could be a long task!
Philip
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There were minor variations to the standard Gunner cap badge similar to the one you cite involving the scroll beneath the crown and that beneath the gun but the basis composition and outline of all remained the same. The pattern was established in 1902, well before the Great War.
Samuel's badge does resemble the RA badge, the shadows making it look different, and he could be in the RHA although one would need his shoulder titles to know for sure.
Medal cards can often add to confusion as the RFA and RHA were administered from one office called RH and RFA Records and a man's branch is not always faithfully recorded.
All that said, the task would be much as you describe, trawling through all artillerymen called Samuel Iles or S Iles etc etc and hoping to find one with biographical details. (Except I find none).
Another approach - there are 10 medal cards listed on the National Archives site for men called Samuel Iles. Checking each of the cap badges (none Royal Artillery), the Army Cyclist Corps has a Samuel W Iles and the badge could be that seen in the pic.
Another thought - given that 60% or so of records were lost in WW2 to bombing and a man who did not serve overseas did not get medals hence no card, he may be in the unknown unknowns category.
Does the birth cert have a note of the father's regiment? Is there an absent voters' list for the area where he lived? Did he have a second forename?
MaxD
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Good morning,
The scroll on all varieties of RA cap badges curl up at the ends. I only know two, of that length, that have low ends, North Staffs and West Riding regt's. The centre is not open enough to be the Staffs knot so8 I would go with the Wezt Riding regt.
John915
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I would go with the Wezt Riding regt.
John915
Really? The badge in the pic has a fairly pronounced circular centre not evident in the W Riding badge.
Still without other evidence (no card for Iles W Riding either - unless he is Henry!) ) it can only be a matter of opinion.
MaxD
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Good morning,
I will start checking again to see what else I can find.
John915
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I may be situating the appreciation but the extra bit above the lower scroll on the right side (as we look) looks very much like the trail of the gun on the Gunner cap badge, the circular centre resembles the wheel of the gun and could there be a suggestion of the bottom end of the rammer on the left side above the scroll?
MaxD
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I'm certain that it is a Royal Artillery badge. The absence of a MIC or a medal roll entry would imply that he didn't serve overseas.
Is there any more to the original photo?
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I think the reference to West Riding Regt is a red herring, and the poster meant the W R version of the Gunner badge.
A
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I think the reference to West Riding Regt is a red herring, and the poster meant the W R version of the Gunner badge.
A
Yes that is what I meant. I just posted the image of the West Riding RHA cap badge as one example of the various RHA cap badges.
Philip
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Lots of replies. Thank you very much. He had no middle name. He was born in 1877. I have a vague recollection of someone in the family years ago saying he may have served in Ireland. As far as I know he only signed on for the duration and the family has No previous ties to the military at all.
Geniesot