RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: mcgrath1957 on Friday 13 March 20 23:15 GMT (UK)
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Looking for any information in regard to William Cooper born circa 1874 in England. William arrived in Banffshire Scotland circa 1896. He married there in 1898. His marriage certificate states his parent names as George Cooper (Deceased) and Lydia Leamelle. We have no knowledge of his life in England or any of his family. It was once stated that he was from the Cooper Gypsies and traveled, in many places, but mostly in the New Forest. He did not possess a birth certificate. I can find no marriage for his parents. The only other clue we have is that he named one of his sons Wilson Cooper possibly after one of the relatives he left behind in England. He had no contact with any family after he arrived in Scotland and did not discuss his past with any of his children. Has anyone come across this William Cooper in their searches? Many Thanks
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You could try the Romanygenes website as there are pages of Coopers, Cooper/Williams, also the New Forest http://romanygenes.com/#/new-forest-gypsies/4522151029 (http://romanygenes.com/#/new-forest-gypsies/4522151029)
The website uses Flash which you have to accept before it opens.
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Have you ruled out this family with the right names?
Do you have an occupation for George or just that he was deceased?
1881
George Cooper 37
Lydia 37
George 16
Rose 14
Emily 11
William 8
Elizabeth 6
Joseph 3
Hate 1
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William home with parents in 1891 age 16 then hints are to a Scottish census in 1901 with wife Elsie and son William.
Is that who your William married or someone else?
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Possible children from the 1881 Millie has posted
COOPER, JOHN WILLIAM mmn WEBB
1874 March Quarter in BRADFIELD Volume 02C Page 342
COOPER, ELIZABETH mmn WEBB
1876 Mar Quarter in BRADFIELD Volume 02C Page 347
COOPER, JOSEPH mmn WEBB
1877 Dec Quarter in BRADFIELD Volume 02C Page 339
COOPER, KATE ANN MARIA mmn WEBB
1879 Sept Quarter in BRADFIELD Volume 02C Page 342
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Thanks everyone. I have looked at all the people you have mentioned but they are not my William which is very frustrating. Millipede, the hint is wrong because that William in the census married someone in England. I will just have to keep searching. Thank You
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Does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their family tree? Found one aged 6 living in a tent with his mother Hannah in 1861. Unfortunately, he does not appear to be part of the family I am searching for and just wondered if anyone has come across another WILSON in a gypsy family they can tell me about? Many Thanks
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Which Wilson Cooper are you looking for
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Are you a direct descendant of Wilson - who did he marry & when?
Names/birthyears of children
Have you found him on later censuses? If so - when and where was he born?
You need to provide more info other than a name as freebmd has 8 births for that name between 1837-1860 and the 1861 has 13 entries
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I was simply asking if anyone had a Wilson Cooper in their tree? I am perfectly aware of the online information in regard to Wilson Coopers, but as you will be aware, many gypsy people did not legally register births or marriages. Hence I asked the question; does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their tree?
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I was simply asking if anyone had a Wilson Cooper in their tree? I am perfectly aware of the online information in regard to Wilson Coopers, but as you will be aware, many gypsy people did not legally register births or marriages. Hence I asked the question; does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their tree?
Sorry,
CaroleW and I were only trying to help you locate your Wilson Cooper and to see if we could find some information on him that you did not already have that would help you in your research.
People on this website are happy to try and help others with their research even if they have no connections to the families concerned
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Could you please give us the details from the 1901 & 1911 census for William.
Who did he marry and where
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The questions asked could also help anybody reading your post to determine if there was a connection to their own FH - particularly given the wide range of birthyears & birthplaces of the 1861 entries
Have you checked the Surname Interests Board to see if anybody else is researching a Wilson Cooper? Link is at the bottom of this page under Tools
EDIT
Is this the same Wilson Cooper mentioned in your other post?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827016.msg6909261#msg6909261
topics merged
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My apologies . I do get it, got illness in the house at the moment and not in the best frame of mind to be honest. Trying to do this to take my mind off it but its not really helping because the frustration is driving me crazy!!!! The previous post is mine yes. The William Cooper I am trying to find named one of his sons WILSON which was out of the ordinary compared to his other sons names. As Wilson is such an unusual name I hoped it had come from a relative in his previous life as a gypsy. The only travelling one I found was the one in 1861 census aged 6. I just thought somebody might have a WILSON in their tree and I could then look further to see if my William fitted in somewhere. Sorry, its all very up in the air. My apologies for previous 'nippy' post. Kind Regards
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Re: William's son Wilson. I can only see 2 births on SP. Wilson Laren Cooper 1909 Dundee and Wilson Scotland Cooper 1914 Colinton
Just because he called one of his children Wilson is not a sound basis to assume the name must come from earlier in his family history. You could waste a lot of time and effort trying to make that type of connection with so little information on William.
I have asked the moderator to merge both posts
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Please see my reply on your other thread re Wilson. I am going to ask the moderator to merge the 2 posts for continuity
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1901 for Midlothian - he married Elsie Riddoch in 1898
William Cooper 27 England - railway porter
Elsie 24 b Alva Stirlingshire
William 2 b Alva
James Shiels boarder b Midlothian
ED 34/15/10
Is his full birthplace on the 1911 entry?
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When William married in 1898 - I know father George was deceased but is any occupation shown for him?
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Hi I have connections to the Cooper family and have not come across Wilson being used more likely a mis transcription of Nelson which was quite popular name in the family.
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It
Hi I have connections to the Cooper family and have not come across Wilson being used more likely a mis transcription of Nelson which was quite popular name in the family.
says Wilson
It does say Wilson, I have studied it and Ancestry transcription also states it as Wilson. Mother Hannah Cooper in 1861 census, they were living in a tent. Between finding that and William naming his son as Wilson I felt there had to be a connection? It is all very frustrating, but I will keep on looking. Many Thanks
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Please see my reply on your other thread re Wilson. I am going to ask the moderator to merge the 2 posts for continuity
Thank you very much.
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Re: William's son Wilson. I can only see 2 births on SP. Wilson Laren Cooper 1909 Dundee and Wilson Scotland Cooper 1914 Colinton
Just because he called one of his children Wilson is not a sound basis to assume the name must come from earlier in his family history. You could waste a lot of time and effort trying to make that type of connection with so little information on William.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827509.new;topicseen#new
I have asked the moderator to merge both posts
Thank you. I know, I am clutching at straws.........
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Does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their family tree? Found one aged 6 living in a tent with his mother Hannah in 1861. Unfortunately, he does not appear to be part of the family I am searching for and just wondered if anyone has come across another WILSON in a gypsy family they can tell me about? Many Thanks
That 'Wilson' is actually Nelson Cooper, just mistranscribed wrong
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Did Nelson Cooper move to Wales and change his name to Williams?
If so, I have him on census records and his death.
I am sure it is not the same person from your description, but people did chane their names to fit in with the locality. I have learnt not to take anything as read. My Nelson Williams, I believe was a Boswell.
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Ok, finally had a chance to update my search. Sorry for delay. Husband ill (not corona) and my time is limited these days.
I have managed to work back on William Coopers family from present day to 1911 Census. He was married to Elsie Riddoch who was born in Scotland. His place of birth states England age 37. The 1901 census is the same, Born England age 27. The information he gave on his marriage certificate in 1898 was that his father was George Cooper (Deceased) Agricultural Labourer. His mother was Lydia Leamelle. This information was copied onto his death certificate when he died on the 11th August 1945, aged 71. Williams occupation was given as Groom (on marriage certificate) and the family say he had grown up with horses and worked with them.
I cannot find a marriage anywhere in the UK between these two people. There is a possibilty he was illigitimate I suppose, but I am having great difficulty finding a Lydia Leamelle anywhere. Did find one born 1843 but on further searches found out that her name was actually Lydia Sewell and she did not marry George Cooper. There is a George and Lydia in Burghfield but they are not the right family. Her maiden name was Webb. The son named William in their census's was actually given the birth name of John William. Although he was named William in family census's, when he married he listed himself at marriage and future census's as John William. I sent for birth and marriage certificates so have now ruled him out completely.
The reason I started looking at gypsies was because the family still alive said they heard through the years that he was from a family of travellers and never ever spoke about his life. However, they all seem to be aware that the son called Wilson was named after one of his family members. Before he died in 1940 he asked one of his sons to take him to the New Forest. He wanted to visit it. Unfortunately, he gave no reason for wanting to do this. Once there he became very agitated and odd and refused to get out the car. Several years after his death there was a fire in the house of his son that destroyed all family photographs and documents so we do not have birth certificate or exact date of birth for him. None of the grandchildren still alive can remember what day his birthday fell on.