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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: mcgrath1957 on Friday 13 March 20 23:15 GMT (UK)

Title: William COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Friday 13 March 20 23:15 GMT (UK)
Looking for any information in regard to William Cooper born circa 1874 in England. William arrived in Banffshire Scotland circa 1896. He married there in 1898. His marriage certificate states his parent names as George Cooper (Deceased) and Lydia Leamelle. We have no knowledge of his life in England or any of his family. It was once stated that he was from the Cooper Gypsies and traveled, in many places, but mostly in the New Forest. He did not possess a birth certificate. I can find no marriage for his parents. The only other clue we have is that he named one of his sons Wilson Cooper possibly after one of the relatives he left behind in England. He had no contact with any family after he arrived in Scotland and did not discuss his past with any of his children. Has anyone come across this William Cooper in their searches? Many Thanks
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: Talacharn on Friday 13 March 20 23:44 GMT (UK)
You could try the Romanygenes website as there are pages of Coopers, Cooper/Williams, also the New Forest http://romanygenes.com/#/new-forest-gypsies/4522151029 (http://romanygenes.com/#/new-forest-gypsies/4522151029)
The website uses Flash which you have to accept before it opens.
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 14 March 20 12:04 GMT (UK)
Have you ruled out this family with the right names?

Do you have an occupation for George or just that he was deceased?

1881

George Cooper 37
Lydia 37
George 16
Rose 14
Emily 11
William 8
Elizabeth 6
Joseph 3
Hate 1
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 14 March 20 12:06 GMT (UK)
William home with parents in 1891 age 16 then hints are to a Scottish census in 1901 with wife Elsie and son William.

Is that who your William married or someone else?
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 14 March 20 12:51 GMT (UK)
Possible children from the 1881 Millie has posted


COOPER, JOHN  WILLIAM     mmn WEBB 
1874  March Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 342

COOPER, ELIZABETH       mmn WEBB 
1876  Mar Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 347
 
COOPER, JOSEPH       mmn WEBB 
1877  Dec Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 339
 
COOPER, KATE  ANN MARIA    mmn WEBB 
1879  Sept Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 342
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Saturday 14 March 20 15:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone. I have looked at all the people you have mentioned but they are not my William which is very frustrating. Millipede, the hint is wrong because that William in the census married someone in England. I will just have to keep searching. Thank You
Title: WILSON COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Sunday 22 March 20 14:42 GMT (UK)
Does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their family tree? Found one aged 6 living in a tent with his mother Hannah in 1861. Unfortunately, he does not appear to be part of the family I am searching for and just wondered if anyone has come across another WILSON in a gypsy family they can tell me about? Many Thanks
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 22 March 20 14:53 GMT (UK)
Which Wilson Cooper are you looking for
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 22 March 20 15:29 GMT (UK)
Are you a direct descendant of Wilson - who did he marry & when?

Names/birthyears of children

Have you found him on later censuses?  If so - when and where was he born?

You need to provide more info other than a name as freebmd has 8 births for that name between 1837-1860 and the 1861 has 13 entries
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Sunday 22 March 20 22:07 GMT (UK)
I was simply asking if anyone had a Wilson Cooper in their tree? I am perfectly aware of the online information in regard to Wilson Coopers, but as you will be aware, many gypsy people did not legally register births or marriages. Hence I asked the question; does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their tree?

Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 23 March 20 07:35 GMT (UK)
I was simply asking if anyone had a Wilson Cooper in their tree? I am perfectly aware of the online information in regard to Wilson Coopers, but as you will be aware, many gypsy people did not legally register births or marriages. Hence I asked the question; does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their tree?

Sorry,

CaroleW and I were only trying to help you locate your Wilson Cooper and to see if we could find some information on him that you did not already have that would help you in your research. 

People on this website are happy to try and help others with their research even if they have no connections to the families concerned
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 23 March 20 07:42 GMT (UK)
Could you please give us the details from the 1901 & 1911 census for William.

Who did he marry and where
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 23 March 20 13:19 GMT (UK)
The questions asked could also help anybody reading your post to determine if there was a connection to their own FH - particularly given the wide range of birthyears & birthplaces of the 1861 entries

Have you checked the Surname Interests Board to see if anybody else is researching a Wilson Cooper?  Link is at the bottom of this page under Tools

EDIT

Is this the same Wilson Cooper mentioned in your other post?

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827016.msg6909261#msg6909261

topics merged
 
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Monday 23 March 20 19:20 GMT (UK)
My apologies . I do get it, got illness in the house at the moment and not in the best frame of mind to be honest. Trying to do this to take my mind off it but its not really helping because the frustration is driving me crazy!!!! The previous post is mine yes. The William Cooper I am trying to find named one of his sons WILSON which was out of the ordinary compared to his other sons names. As Wilson is such an unusual name I hoped it had come from a relative in his previous life as a gypsy. The only travelling one I found was the one in 1861 census aged 6. I just thought somebody might have a WILSON in their tree and I could then look further to see if my William fitted in somewhere. Sorry, its all very up in the air. My apologies for previous 'nippy' post. Kind Regards
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 23 March 20 21:43 GMT (UK)
Re: William's son Wilson.  I can only see 2 births on SP.  Wilson Laren Cooper 1909 Dundee and Wilson Scotland Cooper 1914 Colinton

Just because he called one of his children Wilson is not a sound basis to assume the name must come from earlier in his family history.   You could waste a lot of time and effort trying to make that type of connection with so little information on William.

I have asked the moderator to merge both posts



Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 23 March 20 21:47 GMT (UK)
Please see my reply on your other thread re Wilson.  I am going to ask the moderator to merge the 2 posts for continuity
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 23 March 20 21:57 GMT (UK)
1901  for Midlothian - he married Elsie Riddoch in 1898

William Cooper 27 England - railway porter
Elsie 24 b Alva Stirlingshire
William 2 b Alva
James Shiels boarder b Midlothian
ED 34/15/10

Is his full birthplace on the 1911 entry?
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 23 March 20 22:20 GMT (UK)
When William married in 1898 - I know father George was deceased but is any occupation shown for him?
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: Lelu on Monday 23 March 20 23:35 GMT (UK)
Hi I have connections to the Cooper family and have not come across Wilson being used more likely a mis transcription of Nelson which was quite popular name in the family.
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Tuesday 24 March 20 00:18 GMT (UK)
It
Hi I have connections to the Cooper family and have not come across Wilson being used more likely a mis transcription of Nelson which was quite popular name in the family.
says Wilson

It does say Wilson, I have studied it and Ancestry transcription also states it as Wilson. Mother Hannah Cooper in 1861 census, they were living in a tent. Between finding that and William naming his son as Wilson I felt there had to be a connection? It is all very frustrating, but I will keep on looking. Many Thanks
Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Tuesday 24 March 20 00:21 GMT (UK)
Please see my reply on your other thread re Wilson.  I am going to ask the moderator to merge the 2 posts for continuity
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Tuesday 24 March 20 00:25 GMT (UK)
Re: William's son Wilson.  I can only see 2 births on SP.  Wilson Laren Cooper 1909 Dundee and Wilson Scotland Cooper 1914 Colinton

Just because he called one of his children Wilson is not a sound basis to assume the name must come from earlier in his family history.   You could waste a lot of time and effort trying to make that type of connection with so little information on William.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827509.new;topicseen#new

I have asked the moderator to merge both posts

Thank you. I know, I am clutching at straws.........




Title: Re: WILSON COOPER
Post by: smileyface471686 on Saturday 28 March 20 09:42 GMT (UK)
Does anyone have a WILSON COOPER in their family tree? Found one aged 6 living in a tent with his mother Hannah in 1861. Unfortunately, he does not appear to be part of the family I am searching for and just wondered if anyone has come across another WILSON in a gypsy family they can tell me about? Many Thanks

That 'Wilson' is actually Nelson Cooper, just mistranscribed wrong
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: Talacharn on Saturday 28 March 20 10:37 GMT (UK)
Did Nelson Cooper move to Wales and change his name to Williams?
If so, I have him on census records and his death.
I am sure it is not the same person from your description, but people did chane their names to fit in with the locality. I have learnt not to take anything as read. My Nelson Williams, I believe was a Boswell.
Title: Re: WILLIAM COOPER
Post by: mcgrath1957 on Sunday 29 March 20 17:10 BST (UK)
Ok, finally had a chance to update my search. Sorry for delay. Husband ill (not corona) and my time is limited these days.

I have managed to work back on William Coopers family from present day to 1911 Census. He was married to Elsie Riddoch who was born in Scotland. His place of birth states England age 37. The 1901 census is the same, Born England age 27. The information he gave on his marriage certificate in 1898 was that his father was George Cooper (Deceased) Agricultural Labourer. His mother was Lydia Leamelle. This information was copied onto his death certificate when he died on the 11th August 1945, aged 71. Williams occupation was given as Groom (on marriage certificate) and the family say he had grown up with horses and worked with them.

I cannot find a marriage anywhere in the UK between these two people. There is a possibilty he was illigitimate I suppose, but I am having great difficulty finding a Lydia Leamelle anywhere. Did find one born 1843 but on further searches found out that her name was actually Lydia Sewell and she did not marry George Cooper. There is a George and Lydia in Burghfield but they are not the right family. Her maiden name was Webb. The son named William in their census's was actually given the birth name of John William. Although he was named William in family census's, when he married he listed himself at marriage and future census's as John William. I sent for birth and marriage certificates so have now ruled him out completely.

The reason I started looking at gypsies was because the family still alive said they heard through the years that he was from a family of travellers and never ever spoke about his life. However, they all seem to be aware that the son called Wilson was named after one of his family members. Before he died in 1940 he asked one of his sons to take him to the New Forest. He wanted to visit it. Unfortunately, he gave no reason for wanting to do this. Once there he became very agitated and odd and refused to get out the car. Several years after his death there was a fire in the house of his son that destroyed all family photographs and documents so we do not have birth certificate or exact date of birth for him. None of the grandchildren still alive can remember what day his birthday fell on.