RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jomalomo on Sunday 21 August 05 13:11 BST (UK)
-
which part of london is the bow bells?? my nan was evacuated in the war from london, but she lived by the bow bells??
-
Hi
St Mary-le-Bow church, Cheapside, London
Bryan
-
It is said that anyone living within sound of the Bells of St Mary le Bow is a cockney.
-
It is said that anyone living within sound of the Bells of St Mary le Bow is a cockney.
Geography of Cockney English:
London, the capital of England, is situated on the River Thames, approximately 50 miles north of the English Channel, in the south east section of the country. It is generally agreed, that to be a true Cockney, a person has to be born within hearing distance of the bells of St. Mary le Bow, Cheapside, in the City of London. This traditional working-class accent of the region is also associated with other suburbs in the eastern section of the city such as the East End, Stepney, Hackney, Shoreditch Poplar and Bow.
in http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/CockneyEnglish.html (an american site)
This is a very elastic concept !
I found a website once (forgotten which one) which went on at some length about wind direction and atmospheric conditions, pointing out that you could hear Bow Bells from some places on some days, but not on others.
Bob
ps: just found a reference to the study:
A study was done by the city in 2000 to see how far the Bow Bells could be heard, and it was estimated that the bells would have been heard 6 miles to the east, 5 miles to the north, 3 miles to the south, and 4 miles to the west.
Thus, while all East Enders are Cockney, not all Cockneys are East Enders. The traditional core neighborhoods of the East End are Bethnal Green, Whitechapel, Stepney, Hackney, Mile End. It gradually expanded with the postal areas added for urban renewal.
in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney
-
Hello
In addition to the above, especially during the 1900s lots of cockneys 'interpreted' Bow Bells as being those of Bow Church which is in Bow, East London and far from Bow Bells proper in Cheapside. I think the confusion (and appropriation) has probably happened because Bow Church is actually right in the heart of Cockney East London.
I know my parents, both East End folk, referred to Bow Bells as the ones at Bow Church, so it might be worth checking both locations out ... :)
Regards
Jonathan
-
can anyone that lives in london tell me...
if you live in islington can u hear the bow bells.???
if not can u in shoreditch???
thanks jo
-
Well I've just phoned my mum who was born in Islington and most definitely could hear the Bow Bells, and she says yes also Shoreditch.
Mary
-
oh brilliant, thankyou ever so much!!
-
Does the Bow Bells still work then? :o
-
Do the Bow Bells still work then?
Yes,
The bells are frequently rung. ... For many hundreds of years the bells of St Mary le Bow have proclaimed the church's presence in the heart of the City of London and they continue to do so today.
Quoted from
The Bells
A short history of the bells of St Mary le Bow Cheapside, London.
at: http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/bells.html
which gives you the full story of Bow Bells.
Bob
-
According to this article they do http://www.stmarylebow.co.uk/bells.html Sorry that's a question I can't ask mum, she's been a scouser since 1939 ;D
-
so is islington in shoreditch or are they completely different places?
-
Hi Berlin Bob,
I was born between the 2nd WW & 1961.
Can't be a true 'Cockney' then :-\
-
I looked at Google maps, www.maps.google.co.uk this is a great newish site, put in Islington and so far as I know Shoreditch is in Hackney which seems to be to the east and slightly north. I wish somebody from London was actually answering this, I'm sure they would know better than just maps.
-
Same here, Willow, but even with the wind in the right direction, I don't think I would have heard Bow Bells in Walthamstowe :(
According to Baedecker's Guide at http://contueor.com/baedeker/london/key.htm
Shoreditch is adjacent to, but roughly S.E. of Islington
I wish somebody from London was actually answering this
I'm "sort of" from London, but .... Jonathan, where are you !!!
Bob
-
nan said " i was born in the east end, could hear the bow bells."
then she said something about "lived in roman road"
she had a sister that died at 9 months old. her mother was ethel king, whose husband dies, she then remarried james thomas. but her name was ethel strudwicke before she was a king!!
didnt thinK they had more than one husband back then!!!
-
nan said " i was born in the east end, could hear the bow bells."
then she said something about "lived in roman road"
she had a sister that died at 9 months old. her mother was ethel king, whose husband dies, she then remarried james thomas. but her name was ethel strudwicke before she was a king!!
didnt thinK they had more than one husband back then!!!
-
Don't you believe it, some of them had a few!!!!! watch this space! or rather these boards, you'll get your eyes opened, anyway, keep listening to nan and learn.
Best wishes
Mary
-
There is a Roman Road which runs between Bethnal Green and Mile End in London E2, I would suspect this is the one she was talking about.
-
Hi again Jomalomo
Were you able to ask your nan if she has her own birth certificate?
It would be a good start to get hold of it, as it would confirm her place of birth and both her parents full names.
Wendi
-
on the other side of the the family, my dads dad. ive managed to get back to g g grandad. but every link i click on takes me to blody ancestery.co.uk. what can i do from here? with out paying!?
-
You figure out as much of the family as you can, giving dates and places of birth and you ask for a look up.
See, simple really
Mary
-
Hello
I'm born and bred in East London and live in East London, so yes, I'm a Londoner ;D
From what you mentioned before about Bow Bells and Roman Road, I think Mary A is right about the location and I suspect like many cockneys she assumed Bow Bells was actually Bow Church bells - not far from Roman Road at all. Registrations in that district (depending on which part) could be Bethnal Green, Mile End, Poplar or Bromley by Bow.
There's a bit of information about it here (which also alludes to the confusion with the Cheapside Bow Bells).
Hope that helps.
Regards
Jonathan
-
Shoredith is situated around Old Street. to the north is Hoxton and Haggerston, all districts or parishes of shoreditch. Hackney is a bit further north, a matter of a mile or so. My family are from this area for the last 300 years, I was born in Lever Street which runs from Goswell road in the west to City road in the east. My birth cert says this is the district of Finsbury, but I consider it to Shoreditch and well within the sound of Bow Bells