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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: lorraineosborne on Wednesday 26 February 20 20:51 GMT (UK)
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I have a marriage certificate for Enmma Johnson to James Challinor at St Philips Church, Liverpool in 1847. Her father was entered as John Johnson, Carter - deceased.
I have just had help on a previous topic to track down James Challinor's family, but I think Emma's is harder.
I have looked at births for an Emma with father, John Johnson, but only found one - a John and Martha so far that hasn't worked out. Of course I don't know the year of death for her father - only that it is between her birth and her marriage.
Hoping someone can help!!
Loz57
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Where is she in 1841?
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That is one of my problems, I know from later Census' that she was born in Liverpool. I can't be sure of her on the 1841 census - there is one working as an assistant nurse in the Workhouse hospital, there are a couple more not with families but I can't find anything which I can be sure is the right one. I also can't find a death date for her father John Johnson obviously before 1847 unless of course that was an untruth! as was sometimes the case.
Loz57
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The witnesses to the 1847 marriage were John Hewitt and Elizabeth Hewitt. Possibly relatives. There was a marriage in 1834 at the same church: John Hewitt and Elizabeth Johnson.
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Thanks - I thought the same thing and have actually looked at that. The only marriage entry I can find is one which doesn't give the father's name!! I will have another look on the 1841 census but I think I have struggled to find them before.
Thomas Challinor (groom) had a sister called Elizabeth but she wasn't born until 1828 so that rules her out.
Loz57
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Possibility for John & Elizabeth Hewett in Bay Horse Lane, Liverpool 1841
HO107/558 bk4 f6 p4
John 27, Elizabeth 30 both bn in County
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There's an Emma Johnson (15) in the 1841 Census in the Dale St. area of Liverpool, with a Mary (50), presumably her mother, and two siblings, Ann and William. Possibility?
I presume you have Emma's details post marriage to James, appearing to be in Lincoln according to the 1861 and 1871 Census.
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She's also in the 1851 census in Boston. Ancestry has her as Emma Chalinne, FindMyPast as Emma Chalinor.
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Yes that's the one in Boston on the 1851, then Lincoln after that and died in Lincoln.
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I am still struggling to find the family of Emma Johnson born Liverpool c1824 with father John Johnson. on her marriage certificate in1847, his occupation was Carter and he was deceased. I have not been able to find his death at all - unless of course it was a 'made up' entry.
I thought it would be easier to find death of her father-in-law, Thomas Challinor. His wife Betty, was a widow on 1851 census so he died between 1847 and 1851. I found a death in 1847 and 1848 nut no idea which may be the correct one.
Any help with these very welcome - its been an ongoing search for a long time!
Lo57
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the Thomas Challinor death in 1848 in West Derby was only 32 so too young.
The 1847 one in West Derby was age 68
He was living in West Derby district in 1841 (age 60-64)
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Thank you for your reply. Can I ask where you got the records - I have tried a few sites and haven't got ages at death. I agree the 1847 one seems likely. do you know if there are any burial records.
Loz57
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Ages at death can be found on the gro site gro.gov.uk. You need to register but it is free. Mother’s maiden names are also given on all registered births.
A very useful site
There are not a lot of parish records available online for WestDerby district
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Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that. Thank you - I think I'll send for the certificate in case there is more information.
Thanks again,
Loz57
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Thomas Challinor burial at Childwall 20 May 1847. Abode West Derby, age 68.
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I can't believe I've done this - I looked at the marriage certificate to check the date which was Nov 23rd 1847 and Thomas' name is given as father but not as being deceased. Then I still ordered the PDF and of course that one can't be right - according to the marriage certificate - he was alive in Nov 1847.
Oh well - seems I have to carry on looking.
Loz57
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Thomas' name is given as father but not as being deceased
That doesn't mean he was still alive
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I have marriage certificates where it doesn’t say “deceased” or “dead” on the marriage certificate but I know the person is dead. Unless the vicar etc specifically asked the question, “ is your father still living” it wouldn’t be on the certificate.
If it was me I would send for the death certificate of the Thomas buried at Childwall.
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Thanks - I haven't come across that before. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope I've got the right one.
The other father on the certificate, John Johnson, definitely says deceased and occupation Carter. I will look at the gro indexes for him but I have no other information to back it up.
Loz57
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I have found a baptism for an Emma Johnson - parents John and Martha Johnson at St Michael's, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire.
There were also 3 other children at the same church , same parents between 1818 and 1822, but no Elizabeth, so still no proof of Emma and (the witness being sisters). Also the occupation of John, the father, was a Stretcher not a Carter.
I still haven't found a death for John Johnson.
Loz57
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As mentioned by reply from GIBEL and SHAUN J:-
I now have the death certificate for Thomas Challinor - 17th May 1847 - so he was deceased when his son James got married in Nov 1847.
He was 68 - a dairyman - which I think can be related to cowkeeper - he died of Dropsy although it says not certified. the witness on the death certificate is Luke Fairclough, who I know to be his son-in-law.
So I'm really pleased with all your help to have solved that part of the puzzle!!
Now to crack the Johnsons!!
Loz57