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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:11 GMT (UK)

Title: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:11 GMT (UK)
I have just received the Blackley, Manchester, 1932 death certificate of Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron aged 64. It states that she was the wife of Frank Harmer-Caron a professional violinist. BUT I am blowed if I can find a record of their marriage! Can anyone please help?
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:21 GMT (UK)
There are 2 possible marriages for Frank on FreeBMD

March qtr 1889 Toxteth Park to either Annie MADDOCK or Lizzie MEREDITH
March qtr 1917 Manchester to Bertha NEWTON

Is "Bertha" Sarah Elizabeth?
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:26 GMT (UK)
The GRO index has the death under surname 'Caron'
Deaths Jun qtr 1932 
Caron    Sarah E H    64   
Manchester N.    8d   585   

He originally married Lizzie Meredith in 1889, have you traced her death.  He does not hyphenate his surname on the marriage entry
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:27 GMT (UK)
You've probably seen this - Frank and Elizabeth's grave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/151198538#view-photo=196980885
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your reply.  No Bertha is NOT Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron so it is the other one that I've been having difficulty with.  I HAVE sent for the one you suggested, so I'll just have to wait and see !!!

Yes maddys52, thanks I have seen the stone.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:40 GMT (UK)
The death notice in 1940 for Francis Victor Caron, eldest son of Frank & Elizabeth Harmer indicates that F.V.Carons wife was Bertha.

They seem to add the Harmer as and when they please.  :)
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:45 GMT (UK)
The GRO index has the death under surname 'Caron'
Deaths Jun qtr 1932 
Caron    Sarah E H    64   
Manchester N.    8d   585   

He originally married Lizzie Meredith in 1889, have you traced her death.  He does not hyphenate his surname on the marriage entry

This marriage for Frank Harmer Caron (Violinist) to Lizzie Meredith states that his father was Peter Caron an Actor. FHC was 20 when he married
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:47 GMT (UK)
Yes. I do have the marriage for Frank Harmer Caron (Violinist) to Lizzie Meredith.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:57 GMT (UK)
Is this her, there is no mention of name Sarah.

In Remembrance -17 May 1941
Harmer Caron - Elizabeth
Treasured memories of our dear mother who fell asleep in 1932, also dear Dad
Madge, Kitty & Betty
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 10:59 GMT (UK)
I can't lay my hands on any details right now, but I don't recognise any of those.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:17 GMT (UK)
Maybe,

Madge
CARON, MARGARET  MARIA     mmn MEREDITH 
1895  June Quarter in BOLTON  Volume 08C  Page 489

Kittie
CARON, CATHERINE       mmn MEREDITH 
1902  Dec Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 262

Betty
CARON, SARAH  ELIZABETH     mmn MEREDITH 
1907  Mar Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 260
 
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:20 GMT (UK)
Ah Yes - I do believe I already have them in my records.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:26 GMT (UK)
I would think that the death certificate you have relates to Elizabeth Meredith. 
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:30 GMT (UK)
Yes - LIZZIE Meredith.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:35 GMT (UK)
In the UK you can call yourself what you like unless it is for fraudulent purposes. You do not have to  officially change your name
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:37 GMT (UK)
Same here  !!!
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:43 GMT (UK)
The GRO index has the death under surname 'Caron'
Deaths Jun qtr 1932 
Caron    Sarah E H    64   
Manchester N.    8d   585   

He originally married Lizzie Meredith in 1889, have you traced her death.  He does not hyphenate his surname on the marriage entry

So, is Sarah E H Caron the same person as Lizzie Meredith and therefore you have got the marriage  :)
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:47 GMT (UK)
No SARAH  ELIZABETH CARON was the wife of William Scott and her stage name was DOLLY HARMER.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 11:55 GMT (UK)
I have just received the Blackley, Manchester, 1932 death certificate of Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron aged 64. It states that she was the wife of Frank Harmer-Caron a professional violinist. BUT I am blowed if I can find a record of their marriage! Can anyone please help?

I am confused.
I meant this lady who died - was she Lizzie Meredith?
I thought you were trying to find the above marriage but it turns out that you already have her as Lizzie  ???

I had better leave it  :-\
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:04 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry I've confused you - refer to my original post.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:06 GMT (UK)
There are 2 possible marriages for Frank on FreeBMD

March qtr 1889 Toxteth Park to either Annie MADDOCK or Lizzie MEREDITH
March qtr 1917 Manchester to Bertha NEWTON

Is "Bertha" Sarah Elizabeth?

Marriage
1917
Bertha Newton and  Frank Harmer Caron, 25 yrs , Fitter of 9 Alton Street. Father Francis Caron, Musician
One of the witnesses was Margaret Harmer Caron.

Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:09 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry I've confused you - refer to my original post.

I quoted the original post.
You are looking for the marriage of Frank Harmer Caron and Sarah Elizabeth, whose death you have in 1932.
I am asking if she is, in fact, Lizzie.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:14 GMT (UK)
Heywood you posted-
Marriage
1917
Bertha Newton and  Frank Harmer Caron, 25 yrs , Fitter of 9 Alton Street. Father Francis Caron, Musician
One of the witnesses was Margaret Harmer Caron.

Can you tell me where, please ?
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:23 GMT (UK)
Sorry - Albert Memorial, Collyhurst

Details are on Ancestry - Manchester C o E marriages.
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: Jockwatt on Tuesday 25 February 20 12:26 GMT (UK)
Wonderful - Thank you very much indeed.  Goodnight!
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 25 February 20 16:54 GMT (UK)
The death notice in 1940 for Francis Victor Caron, eldest son of Frank & Elizabeth Harmer indicates that F.V.Carons wife was Bertha.

They seem to add the Harmer as and when they please.  :)

We aren’t allowed to post 1939 register information but you can follow up Frank and Bertha there.
As Rosie points out this Francis died 1940.

Marriage
1946 Manchester Register Office or Registrar attended
Bertha Caron (Bertha Newton) and George Quinn http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php

There is a possible death 1957 September quarter Manchester 10c 338
Bertha Quinn, 60 yrs.

Bertha is buried in Southern Cemetery, Manchester with some Newton family members.

https://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/

Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: DaizyMai on Wednesday 18 September 24 18:11 BST (UK)
Sarah Elizabeth Caron was born In 1867 Bethnal Green she also went by the surname Harmer Caron.....she used the name Dolly Harmer as a stage name as you mentioned....she passed away in 1956 in Hampstead aged 89yrs...If memory serves me right as I have not got the info on hand, her death certificate has two names on it, Sarah Scott and Dorothy Harmer :o  ...these Carons have been hard work to say the least....I should know as I am one of them!  ;D 
If you wish to know more about Dolly and her extraordinary like for a woman of this era then dont hesitate to message me
Title: Re: Sarah Elizabeth Harmer-Caron
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 21 September 24 02:54 BST (UK)
Hello DaizyMai, and welcome to RootsChat.

Jockwatt hasn't been online here since May 2021, however hopefully he still has the same email address and will receive notification of your reply. I'm sure he will be happy to hear from you.