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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Shogmoor on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:28 GMT (UK)

Title: John Rothwell
Post by: Shogmoor on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:28 GMT (UK)
John Rothwell, bn 1823 in Ullington, Lancashire. Married Elizabeth (who) from Holt, Wrexham. Had a son James, bn in Eccles in 1860. I can find John and Elizabeth on the 1861 census with James living in Pendleton, Lancashire, but can not find their marriage as I do not know her surname. I would like to find not only their marriage but any of their parents, or any other children they may have had. Any help is always appreciated.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:32 GMT (UK)
The birth registration for James (and any other children they had) should give her maiden name but bear in mind not all couples living as man and wife were actually married!
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:39 GMT (UK)
Not sure which registration district covers Eccles but

James Kenyon Rothwell Jun 1860 Haslingden mothers name Kenyon

or

James Nicholson Rothwell Jun 1860 Chorlton mothers name Nicholson

James was baptised in May 1860. 
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Shogmoor on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:42 GMT (UK)
I did look in Ancestry in the local library and did a search for a John Rothwell who married an Elizabeth, to see if I could then do a search of Holt in Wrexam to look for a matching surname name for her, but did not get very far. Rothwell in Lancashire is very common, making it hard to match the correct one.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:47 GMT (UK)
Baptism 24 May 1860 St John the Evangelist, Pendlebury, Lancashire
James Rothwell - Parents John Rothwell & Elizabeth
Abode: Queen St., Irlams o' th' Height
Occupation: Carter
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:51 GMT (UK)
John Rothwell, bn 1823 in Ullington, Lancashire.

1861 Transcription is wrong, place of birth is Pilkington
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:51 GMT (UK)
I think the same John & Elizabeth are together in 1851?  So they could have married long before James was born but  :-\

Elizabeth and James are together in 1871 (no John)

Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Milliepede on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:53 GMT (UK)
James seems unsure of birthplace as it changes on later census, Manchester, Holt etc

Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:53 GMT (UK)
Was just going to post that, Milliepede.

John is born Pilkington, in 1861 not Ullington.
1851 is damaged and very difficult to read.

1851 looks like Carter, and both Pilkington and Holt are very feint.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 February 20 15:56 GMT (UK)
I think the family are in Bolton in 1871
RG10/3942 f9 p12

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZPM-JV5


8 Mar 1868 St George's Road Congregational Church, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Alice Rothwell - [Child] of John Rothwell & Elizabeth (formerly Clark)
Born: 29 Dec 1867
 Abode: Ebenezer Street, Gt. Bolton
 Occupation: Carter
 Born At: Bolton
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 11 February 20 16:00 GMT (UK)
There is an 1867 marriage in Wigan for John Rothwell, Carter and Elizabeth Clark  :-\
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 February 20 16:03 GMT (UK)
That would also fit with the childrens birth registrations
ROTHWELL, HERBERT       mmn CLARK 
1879  June Quarter in BOLTON  Volume 08C  Page 466

1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27G-NK9M
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 11 February 20 16:27 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage 1847 for John Rothwell, labourer and Elizabeth Thomas
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
The transcription shows Alkrington as residence

I am not sure - it could be Pilkington  :-\

I can’t post the image
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Marj on Wednesday 12 February 20 12:14 GMT (UK)
   
Marriage: 23 Aug 1847 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
John Rothwell - full age, Laborer, Bachelor, Alkrington
Elizabeth Thomas - (X), full age, Spinster, Alkrington
    Groom's Father: James Rothwell, Farmer
    Witness: Green Parker; James Sheldrick
    Married by Banns by: W. J. Monk
    Register: Marriages 1847 -1848, Page 139, Entry 277
    Source: LDS Film 2356189


Marj
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 12 February 20 16:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Marj

That’s the transcription from lancsopc but the image looks to me as though it could be Pilkington. :-\
I did try to post the modified image for another opinion but couldn’t for some reason.

Heywood
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 12 February 20 17:51 GMT (UK)
After much toil - here is the name of the residences. I can't see the 'r' in Alkrington but realise that the initial letter is dubious.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Marj on Wednesday 12 February 20 19:01 GMT (UK)
Hi I agree with you to me it looks like Pillkington

Marj
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 13 February 20 16:49 GMT (UK)
i think the John & Elizabeth nee Clark is a red herring

The 1881 has different places of birth & ages for both John & Elizabeth to that with son James
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Thursday 13 February 20 17:07 GMT (UK)
Yes, I agree. I wonder re the Rothwell/Thomas marriage but there would be a big gap between marriage and child James.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 13 February 20 17:10 GMT (UK)
the James Nicholson Rothwell's parents appear to be Henry & Margaret - cf 1881 census
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Thursday 13 February 20 17:23 GMT (UK)
Rothwell/Thomas - not checked for parents

William Rothwell b 1849 d 1850 Bury
George Rothwell b 1853 d 1853 Salford
Mary Harris Rothwell b 1854 d 1854 Salford
Elizabeth  Ann 1855 possible death 1856
James b 1858 Ashton under a Lyne

Eccles would be Salford.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: hol on Thursday 13 February 20 17:24 GMT (UK)
3rd September 1848 George Thomas Rothwell
Father a John  mother Elizabeth
Park Lane Pilkington
St Mary the virgin Prestwich.
Lee
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Shogmoor on Monday 17 February 20 12:23 GMT (UK)
According to the 1851 census it states that Johns wife - Elizabeth - was born in Holt, Denbeighshire. I think the spelling on the 1851 for Denbeighshire is wrong as they have it as Derbishire. On the 1881 census it shows that their son James was living in Holt.But not with relatives. Could it be that he went there to find his relatives.I can not think why else he would go there, unless to find his mothers side of the family.  I can not find a marriage there of a John Rothwell to an Elizabeth.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Shogmoor on Monday 17 February 20 13:19 GMT (UK)
Working on the fact that 1851 and 1861 census says she came from Holt. I have done a comprehensive search of all women named Elizabeth born in Holt, Denbeighshire between 1820 and 1830. Came up with Elizabeth Thomas, born 22 May 1825 in Holt. I think that this must be her. But need to check to make sure.
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: heywood on Monday 17 February 20 13:45 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, the marriage certificate gives no father’s details to check. :-\
Title: Re: John Rothwell
Post by: Shogmoor on Friday 28 February 20 10:46 GMT (UK)
Just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your help. I am now able to move on with my family tree.