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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: karen58 on Tuesday 11 February 20 05:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi
When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?
Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.
Thanks Karen
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It didn't the County of York the ancient term denoting the whole county.
Yorkshire is simply the administrative term introduced to England as a result of the Norman Conquest in 1066, neither term replaces the other.
The shire part denotes it is a district under a governor, Yorkshire like Lincolnshire is divided into three parts or ridings for administration purposes. Yorkshire – North Riding of Yorkshire, West Riding of Yorkshire (the Ainsty of York being part of the West Riding), East Riding of Yorkshire (note there is no South Riding of Yorkshire). Lincolnshire - Lindsey in the north (also subdivided into three), Kesteven in the south-west and Holland in the south-east.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi Guy, Thank you.
But I still don't understand what the County of York was or why the old wills (before 1858) stated 'Saddleworth in the County of York' and other documents say 'Saddleworth in the West Riding of Yorkshire'.
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Hi Guy, Thank you.
But I still don't understand what the County of York was or why the old wills (before 1858) stated 'Saddleworth in the County of York' and other documents say 'Saddleworth in the West Riding of Yorkshire'.
The wills were church records with God being in charge the other records were possibly records required under an Act of Parliament, i.e. civil records with government officials in charge.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy
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Hi
When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?
Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.
Thanks Karen
Is it possible that there is some confusion between the word 'formally' and the word 'formerly'?
I am in New South Wales, Australia and here 'formally' to me is indicating that Yorkshire was and still is the Informal name and that the Formal name was and is County of York versus 'formerly' which would be seeking out a previous name that is no longer in current use.
So New South Wales was once a British Colony, so it was formerly a British Colony. Australia is formally known as the Federation of the Commonwealth of Australia, informally referred to as Australia. It was formerly six British Colonies and those colonies were federated into one British Colony of six states by the legal instruments signed off formally by Queen Victoria in 1900.
JM
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Hi majm
Good to meet a fellow Australian on Roots Chat, I'm from Brisbane. It has been raining here for more than 3 weeks. Has Sydney been the same. Typical Australian weather; Dought, bush fires and flooding rain.
You make an interesting point, but I think it is just misleading info on Wikipedia. On this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire Wikipedia states 'Yorkshire (/ˈjɔːrkʃər, -ʃɪər/; abbreviated Yorks), formally known as the County of York.
This is what I understand of the situation.
Yorkshire has been know as Yorkshire since just after the Norman invasion, about 1000 years.
Untill 1974, it was made-up of three Ridings, each being an administrative county, plus a 4th county - The County of York.
The County of York was also the City of York and I think it was the administrative capital of Yorkshire. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yorks/city-of-york
The City of York is no longer a separate county but is within North Yorkshire, but I don't know if that happened in 1974.
Until 1858, wills and probates were administrated by the bishops in the relevant Diocese of the testator in the probate court of the relevant Archdiocese. So they were episcopal records and the government didn't have much to do with the administration of probates. Wills and probates were held by the church and stored at the relevant Archdiocese.
I have pre-1858 wills from Saddleworth and Halifax which were both parishes in the West Riding of Yorkshire. These were were administered, respectively, by the Archdiocese of Chester and the Archdiocese of Pontefract.
The wills range between the years 1676 and 1806.
My confusion is:
All the testators start their wills with the declaration:
'I 'Joe Bloggs' Yeoman of Saddleworth/Halifax in the County of York do...'
So my question is, why do they say the County of York rather than Yorkshire.
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Hi
When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?
Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.
Thanks Karen
Is it possible that there is some confusion between the word 'formally' and the word 'formerly'?
I am in New South Wales, Australia and here 'formally' to me is indicating that Yorkshire was and still is the Informal name and that the Formal name was and is County of York versus 'formerly' which would be seeking out a previous name that is no longer in current use.
So New South Wales was once a British Colony, so it was formerly a British Colony. Australia is formally known as the Federation of the Commonwealth of Australia, informally referred to as Australia. It was formerly six British Colonies and those colonies were federated into one British Colony of six states by the legal instruments signed off formally by Queen Victoria in 1900.
JM
That makes sense, JM. In fact it is the only answer that does make sense.
Regards
Chas
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:)
Brisbane... That would be the capital of Queensland.
Sydney ... That would be the capital of New South Wales.
I do not live in Sydney, but I can certainly confirm that many districts across the entire continent and all our states and territories continue to experience extreme weather .... droughts, bush fires, flooding rains, heat waves, dust storms, .... but ...
So, back to topic, it seems to me that the word FORMALLY is the clue re County of York v Yorkshire.
Queensland was formerly part of New South Wales, and was formally hived off in 1859.
;D
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York was the county town (i.e. administrative centre) of Yorkshire, Yorkshire being the name of the county. Another name you often find used as shorthand for Yorkshire is Yorks.
Yorkshire was the biggest county in England and as such was divided into smaller administrative areas these being the three ridings - East, West and North along with the Ainsty of York and the city of York (riding is an old anglo-saxon word meaning third so the south got left out).
There was a major overhaul of counties in 1974 when Yorkshire was split into several smaller counties. As part of this York did initially become a part of North Yorkshire losing its county town status to Northallerton. It eventually became what is called a unitary authority meaning it became a separate entity from North Yorkshire for administrative purposes.
You will still find the area referred to as Yorkshire by its older inhabitants (like me!).
Not wanting to confuse you further but Saddleworth became part of the county of Greater Manchester in 1974.
Hope this helps.
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You make an interesting point, but I think it is just misleading info on Wikipedia. On this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire Wikipedia states 'Yorkshire (/ˈjɔːrkʃər, -ʃɪər/; abbreviated Yorks), formally known as the County of York.
.....
The wills range between the years 1676 and 1806.
My confusion is:
All the testators start their wills with the declaration:
'I 'Joe Bloggs' Yeoman of Saddleworth/Halifax in the County of York do...'
So my question is, why do they say the County of York rather than Yorkshire.
In that era, in legal documents eg wills the 'County of York' would have been the FORMAL way of referring to 'Yorkshire'. 'Yorkshire' would have been the INFORMAL way of referring to 'County of York'.
Brisbane is the FORMAL word, Brissie is the INFORMAL word, but both refer to the Capital city of the Queensland.
JM
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According to me there are five styles of naming English Counties. One of each listed. Places like Tyne and Wear not included. The latter makes me ill. Good people bad name.
Bedfordshire
County Durham
Cheshire
Dorset
Northumberland
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Hi majm
I think you are right, that Yorkshire is 'formally' known as the County of York.
I think my confusion is with the meaning words shire and county. In England shire seems to be synonymous with the word county. Where in Australia shire is a local government area.
I find Australia land administrative divisions so much simpler.
Cheers Karen
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Being English, it never occurred to me that "shire" could mean anything else but a county ;D
But not all counties ;D
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire
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I think my confusion is with the meaning words shire and county. In England shire seems to be synonymous with the word county. Where in Australia shire is a local government area.
Shire is the Anglo-Saxon word and county is the Norman word but they mean the same thing. Historically they were just local government areas here too but centuries of politicians' piecemeal tinkering has complicated things. Let's see how simple Australia's local government system looks in 1000 years time.