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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: amac1210 on Tuesday 21 January 20 15:13 GMT (UK)

Title: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 21 January 20 15:13 GMT (UK)
Hello All,

Searching for origins for my ancestors Peter Taylor and Margaret Taylor. Margaret's maiden surname also appears as Taylor on documents for their children, death certificates and marriage certificates etc. They both appear to have lived in Argyllshire, that is in Campbeltown. Both born c.1805 or thereabouts. Their son Donald / Daniel Taylor married Euphemia Campbell in 1866, and he died in 1902. I don't have records for the lives of their other children, though they do appear on the 1841 census. I'm really just looking for definitive evidence of their own parents and origins. Perhaps some death records or marriage records. Nothing that I've found so far. Thanks.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 21 January 20 17:30 GMT (UK)
On Daniel's marriage certificate, did he say if his parents were deceased? If not, you should be able to find their death certificates which should tell you the names of their parents.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 21 January 20 22:07 GMT (UK)
Yes, both dead unfortunately. No find as yet for their deaths, and I've looked extensively. I think focussing on birth and marriage in Campbeltown area may help?
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 22 January 20 11:29 GMT (UK)
I note the children born Campbeltown to PETER TAYLOR & MARGARET TAYLOR

DONALD 1823, MARGARET 1830, EDWARD 1834, JOHN 1836.

There were two others born elsewhere.

PETER 1825 Luss, ALEXANDER 1827 Rothesay

If this is the family in 1841 on Freereg, probably the strangest I have ever seen.

Abode Shore Street, Campbeltown.  – TAYLOR all born Argyll.

No name, 999, Navy, UNK (husband absent written in name column)
Margaret 35
Alexander 13
Margaret 10
Edward 7
Catherine KNOWLAN 15 Female Servant

The 1851 Campbeltown on SP but you would need to view for detail.

PETER 59, MARGET 48, ALEXANDER 21, MARGET 18.

So given the above the only marriage I can find in Scotland on SP may be a possibility.

PETER TAYLOR   Married    MARGARET TAYLOR   14/01/1820   Leith North

Possible baptism for Peter near Campbeltown

TAYLOR   PETER   DUNCAN TAYLOR/PEGGY MCDONALD    02/09/1793   Killean and Kilchenzie

The only record in Scotland for Margaret seems unlikely?

TAYLOR   MARGARET   JOHN TAYLOR/MARGARET EDWARD   16/09/1804   Arbroath


Colin
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 22 January 20 12:14 GMT (UK)
Margaret TAYLOR
Birth 5 May 1802
Christening: 5 May 1802
St Quivox and Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland
Parents;
Alexander TAYLOR
Margaret STEWART

Although its 42 miles from Campbeltown according to Genuki
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 22 January 20 12:25 GMT (UK)
Margaret TAYLOR
Birth 5 May 1802
Christening: 5 May 1802
St Quivox and Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland
Parents;
Alexander TAYLOR
Margaret STEWART

Although its 42 miles from Campbeltown according to Genuki
Aye, as the crow flies :) or as the ship sails. 171 miles by land. In those days the most likely mode of travel was by sea.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 22 January 20 14:43 GMT (UK)
When I looked at SP earlier today the following did not appea?

TAYLOR   MARGARET   JOHN TAYLOR/JANET MACILCHEIR 18/11/1804   Campbeltown
TAYLOR   MARGARET   ARCHIBALD TAYLOR/FLORENCE MACCALLUM 10/04/1807   Campbeltown
TAYLOR   MARGARET   JOHN TAYLOR/MORE MACMILLAN 28/12/1803   Campbeltown

Colin
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: ev on Wednesday 22 January 20 14:47 GMT (UK)
1861 Census from Familysearch ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB4Z-LCC


ev
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 22 January 20 15:54 GMT (UK)
1861 Census from Familysearch ?
FindMyPast has Margaret Taylor, 60, daughter Margaret, 29 and son Edward, 27, all born Campbeltown, Argyll.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 22 January 20 16:27 GMT (UK)
If Margaret Taylor was still living in 1861 there must be a death certificate that I've not yet found! I noticed on other certificates the son Donald Taylor took the name Daniel Taylor, and was First Officer in the Merchant Navy. His own records show father Peter Taylor to have been a Merchant Navy seaman also. I've never been able to dig deeper than that, I wonder how widely travelled they were. I also wonder if seamen's records might even have a photograph of them somewhere. Don't know where to begin looking really. Margaret's death record will be essential to eliminate these other possible matches. Peter seems to be difficult too - his father is called Duncan Taylor, on the record, and one would expect the name to pass down?
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 22 January 20 16:34 GMT (UK)
The other problem I have is why did Donald seem to change his name to Daniel, and where on Earth is he on the 1841 and 1851 censuses? Very bizarre indeed. Was he perhaps out with his dad at sea, learning the ropes?
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 22 January 20 16:39 GMT (UK)
Daniel & Donald are sometimes, but not always, interchangeable in Scotland.

Colin
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 22 January 20 17:33 GMT (UK)
I never knew that! So now I need to find a death for Margaret Taylor, and somehow work out how to find Navy records for Peter and Daniel?
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 22 January 20 18:07 GMT (UK)
If Margaret Taylor was still living in 1861 there must be a death certificate that I've not yet found
Yes. But you already know from Daniel's marriage certificate that she was dead by 1866, so you should only need to search 1861-1866.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: ColC on Wednesday 22 January 20 18:21 GMT (UK)
It may be possible to find them on the Merchant Navy records on find my past, but there are a lot of Taylors with the names you mention but little detail on the search results, if you are lucky it might give birth year. It took me a while to find the Daniel I was after.

I cannot remember the year when crew on sea voyages were recorded on census returns, I think it was after 1851, some kind rootschatter will know.

Colin
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 23 January 20 14:52 GMT (UK)
On the issue of Margaret Taylor's death, there are a number of deaths in the Govan/Tradeston area of Glasgow between 1861-66.

There continues to be a problems with death indexes on SP where the age at death does not show on the index (it does on the original). So if you are searching by age, it will not show that way.

What makes it a little more difficult is that Margaret's maiden name and married name was Taylor. SP does not seem to let you search for entries with both surnames the same. Search just ingores the second surname which makes it very hard to identify more relevant entries with both surnames  :-\

Daniel married in the Calton area in 1866. Did he also give this area as his residence?

What happened with siblings Margaret and Edward? I think Edward shows in Wales in 1901.

Monica
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 23 January 20 18:44 GMT (UK)
Hmmmm.

A search for deaths of Margaret Taylor in Glasgow from 1861 to 1866 produces 30 results, of whom 13 have no indexed age.

Narrowing the search to those born 1810 plus or minus 10 years reduces the ones with ages to 3. All of these can be discounted by using their mothers' maiden surnames in the search.

The other surname of Margaret Taylor, 52, mother Montgomery, died Maryhill, is Sinclair
The other surname of Margaret Taylor, 65, mother McKinlay, died High Church, is Allan
The other surname of Margaret Taylor, 60, mother Alexander, died Hutchesontown, is Breckenridge

Of the 13 with no age indexed, five have middle names, and as far as we know the one we are looking for has no middle name.

That leaves eight possibles.

The other surname of Margaret Taylor, died 1862, Milton 644.7/99 is Ferguson
The other surname of Margaret Taylor, died 1862, Central, 644.1/1043 is also Ferguson
The other surname of Margaret Taylor, died 1865, Calton 644.4/758 is Mason
The other surname of Margaret Taylor, died 1865 Govan 646.1/61 is Kennedy

Margaret Taylor, died 1862, Anderston 644.8/573 has no other indexed surname
Margaret Taylor, died 1865, Calton 644.4/126  has no other indexed surname
Margaret Taylor, died 1865, Govan 646.1/302 has no other indexed surname
Margaret Taylor, died 1865, High Church 644.2/2278 has no other indexed surname

So that reduces the possibles to just four. Of course they may be children, or Margaret may not have died in Glasgow. So there's no guarantee that one of them is her. But at least you can be reasonably sure that she's not one of the other 26.

Unless she acquired a middle name in her old age, but it would only take minutes to check for other surnames of the five with middle names.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 12 June 24 01:52 BST (UK)
After a while, I've managed to track down more details on this family. I found a record of Margaret Taylor, from 1852, concerning a culpable homicide. It matches her address on the 1851 census, at New Quay Head. While she was acquitted, the documentation shows her age as 52 years. I've now got a plausible birth record for her, dating from 1799, with parents Donald Taylor and Margaret Taylor.

Just as Daniel is interchangeable with Donald, so too is Peter interchangeable with Patrick, especially in the Highlands. The 1851 census shows Peter as aged 59 years, some 10 years older than his wife, and that he was indeed born in Campbeltown. This matches a 1790 record for Patrick Taylor, whose parents are listed as Patrick Taylor and Janet McMillan.

Notably, Patrick Taylor and Janet McMillan are listed as Peter Taylor and Janet McMillan on the other five records for their children.

All of this means that I've now got records for both Peter's parents and Margaret's parents. Trying to push it back a little more now, and will see what I can find.
Title: Re: Lookup request - Peter TAYLOR and Margaret TAYLOR
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 19 June 24 00:50 BST (UK)
Having now got the complete documentation, I've found that Peter Taylor died 30th January 1852, from a failed amputation of his arm. He had been taken to the Royal Infirmary in Glasgow for the procedure, a relatively new hospital at the time. The amputation was necessitated due to a bite wound to his finger (from his wife Margaret, ostensibly during a vicious argument - hence the culpable homicide charge) that became infected. The witnesses who would have been called up (had the case made it to trial) include many of the broader Taylor family, and I'm not entirely clear on who is who.