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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: jillyg on Saturday 18 January 20 04:31 GMT (UK)
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I cannot find a marriage certificate for my great grandmother,yet she states she is married on my grandmothers birth certificate.
In 1893 would she have had to show proof of legal name.
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You have not said where this birth was recorded. There might have been some places in the world where it was necessary in 1893, but I doubt it.
If you are researching the origins of your grandmother, start with the birth record.
If you list all the information on the birth record we might be able to find information about great grandmother.
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Grandmother...Myfanwy gwendoline Jones
Great grandmother Elizabeth Ann jones née Davies also listed as Thomas in the 1871 census
Great grandfather William llewyllyn Jones
Born pwllhai Cardigan .1893.
There were two older brothers born 1888 1890.
Have searched fo marriage certificate with no luck.
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I do have quite a bit of information,but is the marriage that eludes me. I suspect they were never married.. also would like to have a death certificate for Elizabeth and William
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Grandmother...Myfanwy gwendoline Jones
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Born pwllhai Cardigan .1893.
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I cannot see any birth for Myfanwy Jones in Pwllheli in 1893 - have I misunderstood who is who?
Added:
OK, my apologies - Born in Cardigan as you stated NOT Pwllheli
For reference
Myfanwy Gwendoline Jones mmn Davies
1893 March quarter Quarter in CARDIGAN 11B 8
When were Elizabeth and William born - ages on any censuses?
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I cannot see any birth for Myfanwy Jones in Pwllheli in 1893 - have I misunderstood who is who?
If you search for Myfanwy Jones registered in 1893 it comes up as
JONES, MYFANWY GWENDOLINE mmn DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in CARDIGAN Volume 11B Page 8
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I cannot find a marriage certificate for my great grandmother,yet she states she is married on my grandmothers birth certificate.
In 1893 would she have had to show proof of legal name.
If you are referring to England & Wales no simply because a person does not have a legal name as other countries do name their name is the name they use.
It not until the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (entry into force 2 September 1990) that a child in England and Wales had to be given a name, no English law required it.
Cheers
Guy
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William llewyllyn Jones 1865 Llangranog
Elizabeth Ann Davies listed as Thomas in 1871 born Pwllhai 1868
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I cannot find a marriage certificate for my great grandmother,yet she states she is married on my grandmothers birth certificate.
In 1893 would she have had to show proof of legal name.
The information on certificates is only as good as that supplied by the people involved. The civil registration system in England and Wales is 'informant driven' that is the registrar can only put what he is told. However there is a penalty of perjury if the information is wilfully false.
The operative word is "willfully"
But I would think that the chances of being found out were remote, and I would be interested if anyone was charged in the courts, apart, possibly, from cases of bigamy.
Stan
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Is this Elizabeth Ann in 1891?
Census ref RG12 4543 75 12
Mary Tudor Davies, Head, mar, 40, Midwife, b. Cardigan
Elizabeth A Jones, dau, mar , 23, b. Cardigan
Herbert D** Jones, grandson, 3, b Cardigan
William T Jones, grandson, 1, b. Cardigan
Address Pwllhai
** I think this should be "Ll" - not D as transcribed?
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http://newspapers.library.wales
Put "mary tudor davies" in Search (include the " " as part of search key) and hit Search button.
1 "hit" returned.
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That’s correct it should be Ll
Also in the 1901 census I have Mary Tudor Davies with 3 grandchildren.
Listed with incorrect names and in the case of mary( Myfanwy) she is listed as being 47. She is 4.
No sign of Elizabeth
W L Jones I think is in llandebie as a border and a physician surgeon .
In 1911 he is in Newcastle in Emlyn and listed as a dispenser
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Not having much luck with the newspaper search 🙄
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I did exactly as Hanes said and below is part of what appears.
CARDIGAIN.
… Llewelyn Jones, Llangranog, was charged with having assaulted Elizabeth Davies, a woman with whom he cohabits, and her mother, Mary Tudor Davies, both residing at Pwllhai in this town. Defendant was also charged with having been drunk and disorderly at the time.- P.S. Davies said that while on duty near Pwllhai, he hpard screaming and a cry of murder. On entering Mary Davies's house, she accused the…
The Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard
13th May 1892
Newsp.6556 words
To see the full report, click on the name of the paper. At the top of the page click on the pages until you get to Page 6.
Look for the heading CARDIGAN then scroll down that bit until you find the words Police Court. Then you can read the full article.
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Clicking on the name CARDIGAIN (sic - there's been an OCR misread, but understandable) will deliver the correct page and will automatically zoom in on the relevant column.
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Ah I hadn't realised that you needed to click on the word CARDIGAIN. Doing that of course takes you straight to the relevant item.
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But I would think that the chances of being found out were remote, and I would be interested if anyone was charged in the courts, apart, possibly, from cases of bigamy.
Stan
We must be a nation of dobbers, which is how many came to the notice of the courts.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ow9/
Debra :)
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Putting False Registration Birth in to the British Newspaper Archives gives 295 Articles, although many will be the same case in different newspapers, and not all in the UK.
Stan
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Clicking on the name CARDIGAIN (sic - there's been an OCR misread, but understandable) will deliver the correct page and will automatically zoom in on the relevant column.
I should have added "Automatically zooming in on the relevant column after the page is delivered is, let's say, inconsistent"
I have also discovered I directed jillyg to the article as far back as Sep 2013.
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Sometimes it's the baptism entry which is the fib.
I've just transcribed a 1933 baptism with an unusual surname. I looked for the birth registration to check spelling.
I found the birth with the mother's maiden name rather than the unusual one. In 1939 the father seems to have been 100 miles away and married to someone else.
The child seems to have married in the late 1950s with an extra middle name, matching the father's surname, so may have known about their parentage.
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Thank you Hanes for your help.
Yes I have found the article before thank s to you.
I think, considering the court case, and the fact Elizabeth had two older children,they may not have married
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Sometimes it's the baptism entry which is the fib.
Sometimes it can be the birth registration too. My wife's Aunt Jane was born in 1910 and registered as John - Boy. There is absolutely no doubt of the record, as the date, address and parents data are correct, and there are no other births of that surname in 1910. One can only assume that (a) the recorder misheard 'Jane' and wrote John, assuming Boy; or (b) the parents hadn't checked the child's credentials and changed their minds later :D
Not sure how it affected the legality of the certificate ....
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I have a GRO certificate recording a death of a woman at age 45 in Liverpool in 1939.
It bears the text "CERTIFIED to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of Births".
I don't know whether it could be used as a legal record, but it was the information on it that I really wanted, not the colour of the stationery. ;D