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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: Quarryman on Friday 17 January 20 15:18 GMT (UK)
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Desperately searching for birth date (and place) of Anne (Annie)Thomas, born 1812-1822,father Thomas Thomas, mother Anne Thomas.Th.e family- minus Anne (Annie) - were living at Is Helen, in 1845 when Anne (Annie) was married to Griffith Williams. Both are said to be "of full age" on marriage certificate.
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in 1845 when Anne (Annie) was married to Griffith Williams. Both are said to be "of full age" on marriage certificate.
Can you place the couple in 1851 to see what birth place is given :-\
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Haven't access to 1851 census, and can't find "Dolwenith, Llanlyffni" - which is on 1845 marriage certificate as Griffith Williams home = on 1841 census. Where would I find it.
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Could you please post all details from the marriage certificate including parish of marriage
Census are available to search free of charge on familysearch.
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Did they have children you can name - birth years/birth places?
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born 1812-1822
Where has that come from?
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Hi Milliepede,
In 1881 she is a widow and living with her son in law in Caernarfon. The 1881 census gives her age as 59 or 69 - It is indistinct, but I would guess it is 69, but... which would put her birth between 1812 and 1822. Her birthplace is given as Llanbeblig, but I need to find exact location.
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Hi Rosie99,
Bith certificate says they were married at Llanbeblig parish church in 1845. Witnesses were two Williamses, probably children from a former marriage. Family talk says he was much older than Annie, and died a few years after the marriage.She was back in Caernarfon and married/widowed again by the late 1860s. She had two daughters, one of whom married my grandfather. The family, including children by grandfather lived in Uxbridge Square Caernarfon.
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What surname was she known as in 1881 and what was the name of the son in law she was living with
Is this the family in 1881 at 12 Uxbridge Square
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WS-JQ8D
Age for Annie is 59 on the original copy
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1871 at 12 Uxbridge Square - RG10/5721 f57 p24
John Hughes 69 - Asst Master Mariner
Anne Hughes 51 bn Llanbeblig
Annie Williams dtr age 18
Frances Williams dtr age 14
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1861 Llanbeblig
RG9/4342 f71 p24
Griffith Williams 48 - Master joiner employing 4 men - born Llaniestyn
Anne Williams 43
Annie Williams 9
Frances A Williams 2
Catherine Roberts 17 - servant
rest of household bn Llanbeblig
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Llanllyfni is about 7 miles south of Caernarvon, just off the A487.
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:-\
1851- HO107/2516 f220 p23 - Pool Street, Llanbeblig
Griffith Williams 37 occ Joiner bn Llaniestyn, Caernarvonshire
Ann Williams Wife 35 bn Llanbeblig
Margaret Williams Dtr 15
Catherine G Williams Dtr 9 bn Llaniestyn, Caernarvonshire
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Could you please post all details from the marriage certificate including parish of marriage
Census are available to search free of charge on familysearch.
What was Griffith's occupation
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Griffith Williams, baptised 2nd Feb 1813, Llaniestyn. Parents, Robert & Jane
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Griffith burial 14th Aug 1867, Llanbeblig. Ann Williams married Morris Hughes 20th Feb 1869, Llanllyfni.
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Discount the 1869 marriage. Too young.
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North Wales Chronicle 24 August 1867
On the 12th inst. Mr Griffith Williams, Cabinet Maker, 11 Segontium Terrace, Carnarvon.
Address matches 1861 census entry
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Thanks Rosie99 (and everyone else) for your help. Your info would make her 21/22 when she married widowed farmer Griffith Williams - father farmer William Williams - in 1845. As she doesn't appear in the 1841 census at the family home at Is Helen I guess she may have been a servant somewhere = possibly at the home of Griffith Williams at "Dolwenith, Llanllyfni". I still can't find this on the 1841 census!
Now to find Griffith Williams and Dolwenith.
Thanks again, everybody.
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I don't think you'll find Dolwenith in the 1841 census.I've looked at the properties close by it in 1851,such as Tir Bach,Tal Garnedd,Dol Ifan(or Evan) and found them on the 1841 census,but no sign of a Dolwenith.There ia however a Dol y Fellin in this sequence,occupied by a Griffith Williams.There is plenty of scope for confusion because Dolwenith in 1851 is occupied by a Griffith Thomas,with wife Anne,but the son is given as Thomas Williams!
Regards
Roger
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I've found Dol y felin on an old map which has Dolwenith as well,so they are different properties.I'll look again at the 1841 census.
Roger
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Hi Quarryman
Dolwenith is still there just SE of Llanllyfni. It is mentioned on Melville Richards list of places for around 1770 so its been around a while!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01owk/ and zoom in a level and you should spot it on the map
On Nantlle.com there is a posting from a few years ago which fits to the immediate previous occupants of Dolwenith.
Despair makes a good point - patronmics may wel be involved as the families around there seem to be using the naming pattern.
Good Hunting
M
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Thank you, everyone, for all your help. It is much appreciated. As I have found, postings usually throw up questions as well as answers = but that is what it's all about.
Thank you all again. More trails to follow.
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Back again...why cannot I find any record of the birth of Anne Thomas. father Thomas Thomas, mother Annie Thomas, between 1815 and 1823 .anywher She gives her birthplace as Llanbeblig in censuses, but there is no record of her birth anywhere as far as I can see.Apart from parish registers, FreeReg , FamilySearch can anybody suggest anything else. Have even tried Chester, where her mother cam from.
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The only thong I can think of,which is a long shot,and may be impossible to prove,is that she is somehow synonymous with a Jane Thomas.In the time period you are interested in there is a birth in Llanbeblig in 1817 with a possible death in 1819,then two births in 1821,one of which is to the other Thomas and Anne(nee Parry),with one death also in 1821.I can't confidently follow the remaining Jane Thomas through either census,marriage or death.
Roger
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Desperately searching for birth date (and place) of Anne (Annie)Thomas, born 1812-1822,father Thomas Thomas, mother Anne Thomas.Th.e family- minus Anne (Annie) - were living at Is Helen, in 1845 when Anne (Annie) was married to Griffith Williams. Both are said to be "of full age" on marriage certificate.
Presumably you know her father is Thomas from her marriage - what was his occupation.
You say the family minus Annie were at Is Helen in 1845, where did that information come from.
What is the source of her mothers name
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Hi Rosie99,
Sorry, got confused.Meant to say there was no mention of Annie in the 1841 census - nor her elder brother - but she gives her home on her 1845 marriage certificate as Is Helen, Llanbeblig, the family home,
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Can i just throw another spanner in the works then
Considering that the enumerators did not really care about the information they were collating as it was Welsh and they were English if they were enumerating in Carnarfon then the default parish of birth was 9 times out of 10 llanbeblig - sorry
but it was the same all over......my gg grandfather was born in Llanllechid according to the census but I know from his birth certificate (now i finally have it after many years of hunting it down) and family stories that he was born in the neighbouring parish of Llandegai - its so frustrating but its part of history itself
M
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Hi Mair,
Had the same problem myself; then I discovered that there had been a long-standing dispute between the Bishop of Bangor and the Pennant family over the boundaries of Llanllechid and LlandegaI. South of the Afon Caseg was claimed by the Pennants as Llandegai and disputed by the Bishop. The dispute was not settled until well into the 1800s.