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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wiltshire Lookup Requests => Wiltshire => England => Wiltshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JEB01 on Thursday 16 January 20 23:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I would much appreciate any help in finding baptismal details for my x3 grandfather William Butcher.
William married Fanny Pickett at Calne Parish Church on 24/2/1844.
He was “of age” so I suppose over the age of 21 years.
His father was also William - “labourer”.
This William was a jobbing stonemason. He and Fanny moved to London, where he died on 23/10/1872. His death certificate gives his age as 50, indicating a birth year of 1821 or 1822.
The 1841 Census has William living at the oddly named “Quarr in Stock Tything Calne” with his father William, his sister Elizabeth, and, I believe their stepmother Sarah (whom I believe father William had married in 1828).
The Census gives 1821 as the birth year if both William and Elizabeth, but of course this can’t be relied upon.
Elizabeth married William Morley in Calne on 28/8/1841 as “a minor”.
She died in 1901, said to be 78 years, suggesting a birth year of 1823.
I can’t find any baptismal record for either William or his sister Elizabeth.
It would be good to have formal confirmation of their parents, so that I can be sure that my subsequent research of their father William is for the right man!
Any help appreciated. Thanks!
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Might be of help locating the father's birthplace or where he worked, Quarr is on the Isle of Wight and there's a Quarr Abbey also there.
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Thanks for that reply.
William’s father, also William, came from Bremhill, near Calne, if it’s the right man.
He was baptised there in 1793.
There is certainly a Quarr Abbey on the I of Wight, but the 1841 Census refers to residence in “Quarr in Stock Tything, Calne”.
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There is still an area in Calne now called Quarr Barton.
It is possible that they were living in tithe housing belonging to one of the major landowners in the area? If so it could be a description of the property rather than an address. I had relatives that rented spare properties not needed for estate workers.
I checked all the Calne churches for baptisms last night but did not find any Butchers.
Now I know the Bremhill connection I will check there.
I think if I found the correct first marriage for William, then one of my ancestors was a witness.
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Is Selina Ann Butcher an older sister of William and Elizabeth?
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Thanks for your replies glencare - interesting.
I think you are probably right about the housing. The elder William Butcher was a road labourer all his life. He died in 1873, aged 80 years.
After his second wife Sarah died in 1852, he went to live with his married daughter Elizabeth (Morley) and her family at 11 Lansdowne Row Calne.
As you know I'm hoping to find baptismal confirmation that the elder William was the father of the younger William, and of Elizabeth, although I'm pretty sure he must have been.
The elder William was I believe married to Ann Duck in Calne in 1817. The witnesses were Benjamin Rivers, and Janet (or Jane?) Angell. Is this the marriage you were thinking of?
I've seen the name Selina Ann Butcher, but as far as I am aware she is no relative.
Thanks again
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Baptism at Calne 1817
Jane daughter of William (labourer) & Anne BUTCHER - of Calne.
Marriage- 17 September 1837
At the Chapel of Winsley - in the Parish of Bradford, Wiltshire
John MORTIMER - of full age, bachelor, Sawyer - residence: Bradford
father: John MORTIMER - Sawyer
Jane BUTCHER - Minor, Spinster, of Bradford, father William BUTCHER labourer
witnesses: Joseph MORTIMER and Joseph ROGERS
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On the 1851 census - Jane was born in Calne.
On the 1841 Census, John MORTIMER and Jane - + two children are on Page 11 of 13 - for Calne, District 1 - the BUTCHER family are on page 13 of 13
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Capetown, many thanks.
That fills in another small part of the jigsaw!
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The reason I asked about Selina is that there is an online tree that has four children for William Butcher and Anne Duck. The oldest is Selina. Just enquiring if you thought there were other children, before William?
If Selina is William the younger’s sibling, then it may be useful info that Selina was not baptised until she was an adult.
Yes that is the marriage in 1817 I meant.
Have you seen the 1827 death for Anne Butcher?
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Ancestry: Wiltshire Marriages
Name: Wm BATCHER
Marriage : 11 July 1828
Calne, Wiltshire
Spouse: Sarah NICHOLS
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Original Entry has
Wm BUTCHER - of this Parish
Sarah NICHOLS - of this Parish
were married by Banns
witnesses : Wm AXFORD Snr.
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Thank you Glencare, all of that is very interesting to me.
I will do some further checking with regard to Selina (an unusual name). Do you know when she was baptised as an adult?
Any information at all about Anne Butcher's (nee Duck) would be much appreciated.
You mentioned earlier the the 1817 marriage between William Butcher and Anne Duck. One of the witnesses was Benjamin Rivers who I think is very likely the brother of William.
William's mother was Ann Rivers (quite a large family of Rivers in Bremhill), who had an illegitimate child (baptised Benjamin Rivers) in Bremhill, in March 1790.
In October 1792 Ann married Benjamin Butcher (or Bucher as iit was spelt in the parish record at Bremhill). "Benjamin" doesn't seem to have been a well used Christian name at the time, so I've assumed Benjamin Butcher to be the father of Benjamin Rivers.
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Thank you also Capetown.
William Butcher married his second wife Sarah in Calne in February 1828. I think his first wife, Anne, died in 1827 leaving him with, I thought two children, but from this very helpful thread, possibly it was four children.
Little wonder that he married again fairly quickly!
The odd thing is Sarah's age. The Census report of 1851 says she was born in Melksham in 1783, which would make her 10 years older than her husband William, but when Sarah died the following year, in October 1852, her stepdaughter Elizabeth Morley (William's married daughter) gives her age as 77 years, which would give a birth year of 1775, and make Sarah 18 years older than her husband William.
Elizabeth was in a position to know as William and Sarah were living with the Morleys by then.
Sarah's death certificate records the main cause of death as "paralysis - 10 years", so I assume life wasn't easy.
William continued to live as a lodger with the Morley family in Calne until he died in 1873.
Again my thanks to all who have responded to my original post.
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Glencare - sorry my message should have read, any information about Anne Butcher's death in 1827 would be much appreciated.
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I did think, Sarah NICHOLS could have been married before
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There is a marriage of a Simon NICHOLS to Sarah GUNNING - 11 September 1802 at Calne (just had a quick look at Family Search, also on Ancestry)
Christening at Calne - 14 August 1803 (born 16 June 1803) - after the date is written Tyler - not sure if this is Simon's occupation: (can't find a death) - but he could have worked anywhere!
William NICHOLS - parents: Simon & Sarah ***
Then back to Family Search (which I still find very useful)
and it comes up with
Sarah GUNNING - christened 21 March 1784 at Melksham, father: Caleb GUNNING
(1 year off the 1851 census)
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Think this is a distinct possibility...
*** There is a William NICHOLS c1804 - living in Calne - occupation: Schoolmaster (1841 census living in Cherhill, Wilts.
Simon Nicholas baptised 21 September 1777 Calne, Wiltshire.
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Checking with Wiltshire, Church of England Deaths and Burials - 1813-1916
Parish Entry on Ancestry
At the top of the page (138 of 306) - gives the year 1827
Anne BUTCHER of Calne aged 57 years. = c1770
This Anne seems too old for the Mother of William & Elizabeth!
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When I search Ancestry for DUCK marriages in Calne, around that time - 'No Hits'
When I use Family Search - there are loads!!! - so have to cross-reference, quite a few to work with, but this may be a possibility.
October 30 1785
Anne Daugr of Isaac & Maria duck, born 12th - labr. Paid.
So Isaac was a labourer.
Not far down on that page, is Isaac, Son of Thomas & Prifscilla DUCK - on November 3 - born 3rd, again a labourer.
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Witnesses: Jane ANGELL at Anne DUCK's marriage -
Jane ANGELL christened at Calne 6 May 1792, father Isaac - mother: Ann
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There is a George ANGELL marrying Jane BUTCHER - at Calne - 22 April 1822.
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Thank you once again Capetown.
Quite a lot to work on here. I also felt that Sarah Nichols was probably married before she married William in 1828, and also came to the view that she was probably born Sarah Gunning in Melksham, if only because the 1851 Census seems to have been reasonably accurate in that it recorded William Butcher's year and place of birth correctly, so why not Sarah's too?
My original inquiry was to try and find a record of the baptism of William Butcher's son, William, and his sister Elizabeth, but I'm now even more of the view that for some reason they were not baptised, or if they were that the record hasn't survived.
Even so I'm sure William senior was their father, and the replies I've received have helped expand the story, so once more my thanks for all the information.
I'm inclined I think to regard this as a "completed" inquiry.