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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: vicky19 on Thursday 16 January 20 12:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi, is there a place where I can check a modern address against one I have found in the census?? The maps of the area are not very helpful. I have the right village but would like to find the actual occupier of a house if possible.. Thanks Vicky
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If you are willing to provide names, dates and address I'm sure someone will be able to help you.
NLS side by side maps can be very useful to compare "then" and "now" addresses:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=6&lat=55.4060&lon=-1.7112&layers=6&right=BingHyb
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The current address is Cashes Green Road, which is in Stroud. However up to at least 1939 the group of houses were just called Hamwell Leaze. There are some house numbers on the 1881 census but I dont think they relate at all to current house numbers. In 1891 they are just Hamwell Cottages. And in 1911 they are just listed under Hamwell Leaze. There are some house numbers in 1939 but its still Hamwell Leaze rather than Cashes Green. I've looked at early maps but they are not very helpful. Thanks Vicky
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Hamwell Leaze is a slightly different area to Cashes Green, which you can see here:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=51.7486&lon=-2.2472&layers=6&right=BingHyb
Are the cottages you are interested in the ones by the Brewery? If so, they seem to be in Hamwell Leaze.
Have a look at the 1884 map here:
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/384503/205500/12/100203
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Hi, yes its the places which were next to the old Brewery, so Hamwell Leaze rather than Cashes Green itself. All through the census it's Hamwell Leaze. Cashes Green Road is just the modern street address for these properties, it's very confusing that they've called it this rather than Hamwell. Vicky
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I would think that your Local Authority would be able to help.
Street numbering comes under the provisions of the Towns Improvement Clauses Act 1847 and the 1925 Public Health Act.
The Local Authority administer these and should have a record of the numbering and any subsequent re-numbering.
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Ok, great thanks. Vicky
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It is most likely that the numbering of the cottages started at the village [NW] end. An excerpt of the enumerator's route shows this:
So if you can find Mr Phipps he will probably be after No 11 Hamwell Leaze.
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Thanks.
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Where does one find something like the enumerators route? Should there be something of the sort with all the censuses? I have been back and forth through our local one (several villages) for 1881, and can find nothing.
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Where does one find something like the enumerators route? Should there be something of the sort with all the censuses? I have been back and forth through our local one (several villages) for 1881, and can find nothing.
Page one of each census book has the enumerator’s route. :) Some give more detail than others and there is often just a vague outline.
Depending what you are looking for, for more detail it is best to do as you do and “walk” the route yourself taking note of each resident and/or address. I generally consult a modern and old map as I take the “walk”.
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Unfortunately the one I tested starts at page 1, (stamped page 4) and I can't move back from there, which is presumably where the extra information is. These are rural areas with groups of villages in one book, probably done by several enumerators. Perhaps I hit on a bad one to test, as I have sometimes come across extra pages, though not routes, which are sometimes fairly random, as far as I can follow them.
Villages did not have addresses, even in 1911, many just give their address as the village name, or at best "the Street"!
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Unfortunately the one I tested starts at page 1, (stamped page 4) and I can't move back from there, which is presumably where the extra information is. These are rural areas with groups of villages in one book, probably done by several enumerators. Perhaps I hit on a bad one to test, as I have sometimes come across extra pages, though not routes, which are sometimes fairly random, as far as I can follow them.
Villages did not have addresses, even in 1911, many just give their address as the village name, or at best "the Street"!
I got nosey and tried an 1841 census where I know it was a rural area with various places in one book as you described. Though I couldn't find/get to the enumeration district description pages on FindMyPast by paging back, they were there on Ancestry though didn't give much detail other than to define the area of the district, but any extra info can be useful.
May I ask which census ref you tried and on which supplier? I'd like to see if the same applies in the case you tried.
Boo
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It was 1881 on Findmypast. I will try Ancestry - I have a temporary membership at the moment.
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I have checked Ancestry. They do have some enumerators notes, but you can't page from one village to the next! You win some, you lose some.
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I have checked Ancestry. They do have some enumerators notes, but you can't page from one village to the next! You win some, you lose some.
The next village is likely to be in the next enumeration district, so no, you wouldn't be able to automatically move from one to the next.
Some villages can be divided into several districts ... in the description you might see something along the lines of "from the west side of X village starting at X road, south as far as Y road, then to the east side of Z street including the houses ABC" (a poor example but I hope you get the idea). As I understand it there would be a different description in a different book of another part of the village.
I don't have a subscription to a FindMyPast or Ancestry at the moment so can't give you any specific or useful examples.
If there is a way to find adjoining enumeration districts I'm sure someone will know.
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in Ancestry if you go to the breadcrumbs at the top, a drop down box will appear with the other districts, a small village will only have a few. read first page of each to read the route.
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I have checked Ancestry. They do have some enumerators notes, but you can't page from one village to the next! You win some, you lose some.
Thanks for looking, I find it helpful to know more about how and where to find info..
As cbcarolyn says, via Ancestry you can use the dropdown menus at the top to view each separate district and from there can see the enumeration district descriptions which will be the first page in each set.
Boo
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In country districts it was very common to refer to the name of a block of cottages rather than the road, and numbers would be within the block rather than along the road. My parents once bought a house and it was six months later when they found out the name of the lane!
The same applies in some towns, with a named terrace on a long road having its own numbering, as though it was a side street.
It can be difficult to follow the enumerator's route, because the map may not account for newly-built properties even though dates seem to line up. Sometimes you need to look at previous censuses and work out "landmarks" - people who were less likely to move. It's how I found out that the place my gggf died in 1874 had been demolished as a slum by 1881 and that "New Market Street" had been built in its place.
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And then you have the enumerator who, in 1851, helpfully arranged one of my villages in alphabetical order!
The villages I am talking about really didn't have house numbers, in fact some still don't.
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With Ancestry it will not allow you to go on to the next area by using the arrow for next page but if you click on the icon to the left of the number at the bottom, i.e. 7 of 7, you can go on through further areas.
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Thanks for that tip, but unfortunately they are in alphabetical order, so rather than the next village geographically, I get one at the other end of the county.
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I am not sure what you mean. The menus/breadcrumbs not sure how to describe it are county, then area, then area within that and lastly districts, you can click on the districts at the end.
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I couldn't find the menu you mentioned but I have it now. Thank you.
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fab, with small villages, it doesn't take that long to look through, often finding all the family members along the way.
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I guess the enumerator may have took the census schedules in a random fashion by doing one terrace, crossing the road to do 2 houses then back across the road to do the pub. If your family are listed near a pub or a house with a distinctive name, or the church/shop that can help pinpoint where they lived.
I had a relative born in London and the address on the birth cert said " 2 Southampton Terrace, Islington". Took me ages to track it down, as I found that Southampton Terrace was a row of houses, not a street, but the street was Upper Southampton Street. However if precise info was given in the records, we'd not have as much fun finding out the further info.
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I did the census in the 80s and had to find a lot of 'wooden huts' where people were living in Dobbs Weir, the enumerators had (and will still have?) the responsibility of finding all the properties in the area, all the 22b and upstairs flats etc tucked around corners.
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Radstockjeff - thanks for your help, Stroud Council replied and sent me the document with the street-name changes on there. Vicky