RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Dma464 on Tuesday 14 January 20 02:51 GMT (UK)
-
Hello,
I have not posted on here before so please bear with me.
When I was very small I was introduced to the above gentleman by my grandad who told me he was my uncle. Shortly afterwards the gentleman died, I would think it was about 1972.
I know my grandad went to the funeral but I wasn't allowed to go as I was too young. I do however remember the procession of horse drawn caravans coming through Rogate in West Sussex which was where we lived at the time.
My grandad died many years ago and it transpired that he didn't tell my parents about this uncle or his own heritage for that matter.
In order to prove his and my heritage I was wondering if anyone out there knows the name of the strawberry seller so I can try and work out how he is related.
Would any of his close relatives please forgive me for bringing this up, however I would like to prove to my lot that I am not dreaming.
-
Welcome,
Logically, the strawbery seller will be a sibling of either your mother or your father.
Have you asked your parents about their siblings? Have you tracked them all?
-
Hallo,
If you know the name of your grandfather and a rough date of birth / death for him, and place then it should be fairly
easy to trace his siblings and where they all were through the census years.
Trvallelng people seldom stayed in one place , as you know, but some stayed in the same area .
-
If you post your grandfather's name on here and what you know about him - parentage, dates of birth/death etc then maybe we can try and trace his children as logically one of these should be your uncle.
Pheno
-
Hello to you both and thank you for your reply. I have traced as far as I am able my grandfathers side of the family and I believe I new all of his siblings and where they lived what children they had etc as they were all quite close. Grandad was also the oldest sibling and this gentleman was older than him, so I am guessing he was Grandad's uncle and therefore my gg uncle.
This is where things get tricky.
According to family legend my grandad, maternal great grandparents and gg grandparents stopped travelling after the first world war and were therefore banished from the rest of the family. My great grandmother was Annie Hawkins (known as Emma) who as far as I can tell was born in 1891 in Northamptonshire to George Hawkins (chimney sweep) and Lizzie Haynes Sedgeley.
Annie Hawkins' siblings were Elizabeth born 1886 in Coventry, George born 1888 in Coventry, Frederick born 1897 in Northamptonshire, Harry born 1890 in Northamptonshire and Albert born 1901 in Nottingham. None of these people seem to have died in the correct area.
George Hawkins appears to have been base born in 1863, however on his marriage certificate his father is listed as Amos Poulteney. He was born in Stoke, Warwickshire.
Lizzie Hawkins was born in 1862 in Poleworth, Warwickshire to William Haynes Sedgeley and Lydia Wright.
I have traced the family as far as I am able and cannot find a link to West Sussex or Hampshire.
At this point I started looking at the paternal side and got a bit of a shock as I wasn't aware they had been travellers, however judging by the surnames, occupations and spread around the country I am not so sure. I will use a separate post for them as this is getting a bit long.
-
Could you give your grandfather's name and place of death?
Have been looking in newspapers for funeral of strawberry seller - 1971 to 1973, or further apart?
-
Now for the paternal side. My grandad's father was Richard William Jarvis born in 1890 in Nottingham to Richard Skinner Jarvis (tinman) and Laura Reynolds.
Richard William's siblings were Alice (Eliza) born 1881 Cambridge, Laurance born 1883 Nottingham and Cyril born 1904 Nottingham.
None of us were aware of Alice, however it looks like she married a Charles William Hodgkisson (or Hodgkinson) and ended up in Yorkshire.
I know Laurance emigrated to the US and Cyril died from mumps before I was born, so am rather lost for ideas.
This side of the family appear to have moved around Norfolk and Cambridge in the past and there are weird christenings in Hampshire every now and then.
I have got a feeling the 1972 funeral made the newspapers as I think they set fire to the caravan in the lanes which caused rather a stir. Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the article.
-
1891 census as start: Nottingham
Richard Jarvis 1852 Age 39 Tinplate worker Norwich
Laura 30 Elsworth, Cambs
Alice E 10 Cambridge
Laurance H 8 Radford, Notts
Richard W 1 Radford, Notts
Richard W Jarvis b. 1890 is your great grandfather so it is his descent that needs to be followed
Pheno
-
Possible that by 1911 Richard William Jarvis is calling himself William Richard and thinks he was born in Norfolk. He is assistant to publican Walter Stone in Great Yarmouth in 1911.
Pheno
This is not correct entry. Pheno
-
Possible that by 1911 Richard William Jarvis is calling himself William Richard and thinks he was born in Norfolk. He is assistant to publican Walter Stone in Great Yarmouth in 1911.
Pheno
But Richard William, now just called William, son of Richard and Laura is still living with his parents, and younger brother, Cyril.
-
Hi Pheno,
I think the 1891 return in Nottingham is the correct family as I know that is where my grandfathers granparents lived. Richard William married Annie in Coventry, they then moved to Kenilworth with her family which is where he died in 1956.
Yes BumbleB I found that return for him too. He married in 1913.
-
Possible that by 1911 Richard William Jarvis is calling himself William Richard and thinks he was born in Norfolk. He is assistant to publican Walter Stone in Great Yarmouth in 1911.
Pheno
OK wrong chappie. Just as well I said it was only possible as I didn't do a thorough search so will strike the original post.
Pheno
-
It's wise to keep an open mind about the term "uncle".
When I was a child there were a lot of people whom I addressed as "Uncle" or "Aunt". All of them were older than my parents, and most were actually cousins of my parents, in various degrees. (Or spouses and children of those cousins.) So it might be worth exploring the wider branches of the family.
-
Thank you Sloe Gin, unfortunately I have already done that.
It would also be very unusual for our family to have honorary uncles, people were addressed as Mr & Mrs if they were not blood relatives and I cannot think of any occasion where a cousin was addressed as uncle or auntie, so my Dad's cousins were my cousins too. I have however kept an open mind on this.
Unfortunately due to the rift in the family mentioned in previous posts I have not met any of Grandad's cousins, however have researched them as far as I can but they are very difficult to keep tabs on as they can suddenly appear in odd locations.
As of yet I haven't been able to find a definite death record for his uncle Albert Hawkins born 1901 in Nottingham or Frederick Hawkins born 1897 in Northhamptonshire, I do know they went back on the road in about 1919 they then promptly disappeared.
As I have hit a bit of a brick wall the purpose of this post was to try and trace who the 'uncle' who died in approximately 1972 near Rogate, Sussex with a full Romani funeral was and to then try and work out how/if he is connected to my family.
If anyone knows who he was or can find the newspaper report on the funeral it would be great.
-
Good, I just thought it worth making the point that 'uncle' can be quite an elastic term, since the initial responses took it very literally.
I agree that a local newspaper report may be your best bet here. Have you posted on the Sussex board, as there may be someone who can check local resources for you?
-
Hello Sloe Gin,
Good idea, I will try that.
-
Probably better if you ask the mods to move this post otherwise people will be duplicating the information you have been given here.
-
Possibly contact one of the named people for further information?
https://www.communityarchives.org.uk/content/organisation/rogate-society-archive