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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: Ronan Doran on Monday 06 January 20 15:44 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I was hoping some people here could possibly make some suggestions on how i might be able to find my father inlaws fathers birth cert.
Ill explain the search so far and if anybody cant suggest anything Id really appreciate it greatly.
It starts with his grandmother annie edwards who was born in ballynaslaney enniscorthy in 1877. She married a british soldier named george william morris stationed in marlborough barracks in 1898 and had her first child william the same year. George was then sent to the boar war and died at wessels nek.
In 1903 annie morris married michael oneill and had 3 more children between 1903 - 1911.
Family stories say michael claimed one of them wasnt his and annie left ballynaslaney in fear. Were told she went to england (we dont really know) but when she returned she had another baby that came to be known as Alfred morris, however when alfred married later in life his marrage cert reads as alfred oneill, yet one year after marrying as oneill he began to christen his own children as morris.
To complicate things more he was supposedly christened as alphonsus not alfred. Something we didnt believe at first but the church in barntown not far from here was the first church in ireland dedicated to saint alphonsus who is the saint of redemption, kind of sounds like she may have felt guilty about something.
Im also told alfred was in the raf sometime after 1939 and deserted, coming from england to northern ireland in his uniform with rifle and all the way back down to wexford but again ive no idea what name he used to join, what address he gave or dob.
Has anybody any suggestions or tips on how to find someone this elusive?
Its possible when in england he may have stayed with the family of annies first husband george william morris or annies sister mary kate edwards.
It was stated by alfreds brother that he worked in ford in dagenham when they were there but that didnt open till 1928 so it cant be true.
Thats pretty much it, its a confusing story at best, filled with holes and dead ends, any suggestions are welcome.
I was told the wexford archive held a passenger list between 1910 - 1920 from here to england but that turned out to be captain and crew list only.
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Hello,
Sorry if I have missed this but when was Alfred born?
I don’t understand the reference to Fords, Dagenham - why could that not be true?
Where did the relatives in England live?
Heywood
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Hello haywood, sorry for the confusion. So alfred is meant to have been born in 1914 according to school records. Annie left ballynaslaney after 1911 and returned before her death in 1920. Since ford didnt open till 1928 william couldnt have worked there during these years.
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According to a prison report for george william morris when he was arrested in dublin for stealing a coat his family was from birmingham.
I also found a 1911 census in birmingham for a mary kate edwards from wexford but i cant say for sure if this is annies sister or not.
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OP: So, where was Alfred/Alphonsus born? England or Ireland? Not clear.
Apart from that, there was a very strong legal assumption that all children born to a married woman were her husbands. So, I would expect the birth to be registered in her married name. Of course, the registration is based on what the registrar was told, which may or may not have accorded with legal theory....
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"...told she went to england (we dont really know) but when she returned she had another baby that came to be known as Alfred morris, however when alfred married later in life his marrage cert reads as alfred oneill,...."
If he was always known to everyone as Alfred Morris...it points to he might have needed to produce Birth Cert for Marriage??
Have you asked the Priest if a Birth Cert would be needed before marriage??
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"...told she went to england (we dont really know) but when she returned she had another baby that came to be known as Alfred morris, however when alfred married later in life his marrage cert reads as alfred oneill,...."
If he was always known to everyone as Alfred Morris...it points to he might have needed to produce Birth Cert for Marriage??
Have you asked the Priest if a Birth Cert would be needed before marriage??
Or a Baptisim cert.
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Hello, we have been to the local church and no birth or baptisiamal cert were found.
Its believed he was born in england.
Even though he was always called morris he did marry as oneill.
We are not certain annies husband is the father, thats one of the main reasons were searching.
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Hello, we have been to the local church and no birth or baptisiamal cert were found.
Its believed he was born in england.
Even though he was always called morris he did marry as oneill.
We are not certain annies husband is the father, thats one of the main reasons were searching.
Yes we know all that....but was it by choice to marry as O'Neiil or did he have to provide I.D. or not is what I was wondering.
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We imagined he had to provide a birth cert but todays church secretary told us it wasnt church policy back then to hold on to them.
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They don't keep them but I reckon he had to provide some sort of documentation be it Birth Cert or letter from Church where he was Baptized as Alfred Oneill.
IF his mother went to her sister....what Church or Reg Office was there?
Sister in England might be worth investigating??
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Given all that has been said, and using FreeBMD, one interesting birth that could be looked at is
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=bgpPPfP5sbsaET1Ho7i3kw&scan=1 (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=bgpPPfP5sbsaET1Ho7i3kw&scan=1)
Some posters here seem to be able to lookup English birth registrations, but I have no idea how.
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Think this may be that same boy?
Deaths Sep 1922
Morris Alfred H 5 Birmingham 6d 341
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Given all that has been said, and using FreeBMD, one interesting birth that could be looked at is
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=bgpPPfP5sbsaET1Ho7i3kw&scan=1 (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=bgpPPfP5sbsaET1Ho7i3kw&scan=1)
Some posters here seem to be able to lookup English birth registrations, but I have no idea how.
You're not alone! ;D
I've tried and tried Searches but never found anything for names I wanted even after reading Help page.
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According to a prison report for george william morris when he was arrested in dublin for stealing a coat his family was from birmingham.
I also found a 1911 census in birmingham for a mary kate edwards from wexford but i cant say for sure if this is annies sister or not.
Ronan,
I can’t see the 1911 entry for Mary Kate. Is her name transcribed in full?
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Thanks eveybody for the help. Unfortunitely that alfred seems to have died in 1922 so thats not him.
I believe her name may have been recorded as kate edwards in 1911.
The only guaranteed mention we have of mary kate is her birth and baptizimal, after that she disappeared but the 1911 irish census states her parents had 8 living children meaning she was still alive and older relatives use to talk about her and its believed she lived in england.
The registry office i believe was in birmingham and its simply called the birmingham registry office.
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Annie and George Morris marriage on church records. George dad was called George he was a Grocer, Annie dad was called John Edwards and he was a River Bailfiff.
William birth 1898 is on church records
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie
George Morris death in 5.4.1900 at Newcastle KawaZulu-natal Service No. 3214 he was a Private 13th Hussars
record on find my past
http://www.findmypast.co.uk
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I already had that information but thank you for taking the time to look, i appreciate it.
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Church records a Annie Morris aged 26 a widow married a Michael Oneill 1.1.1903 district Enniscothy.
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Ant they had 3 more children between 1903 and 1911 and then alfred was born in 1914 but we have no record