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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: maggiefishblue on Saturday 20 August 05 15:24 BST (UK)
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I wanted to share this piece of information I have just found on the 1881 census:
William Dowdeswell - Head - U - Male 63 Kineton, Gloucester No Occupation (N.B Here of Sufferance)
Do you think William put that on the census or that the enumerator was so fed up with William moaning that he added it later ;D ;D
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I had a look at the image... and it really does say that ;D
Wonder if it has anything to do with who he's living with?
I also see that both William and the 'Housekeeper' are unmarried!
Scarborough Farmhouse, Cutsdean, Worcestershire
William Dowdswell 63 Kineton, Gloucestershire, Head
Emma Chess 25 Gotherington, Gloucestershire, Housekeeper
Ann Chess 3 Broadway, Worcestershire, Housekeeper's Daughter
William Chess 1 Scarborough House, Worcestershire, Housekeeper's Son
Chess 3 Weeks Scarborough House, Worcestershire, Housekeeper's Son
Debbie ;D
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Hi Debbie,
Yes I wondered that myself .... ;)
Maggie
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It may be relevant that William has no occupation - maybe he is "here" on the "sufferance" of the parish?
Although how he manages to pay a housekeeper... ;D
Arranroots ;)
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p.s. I see they are married in 1891 and William senior is gainfully employed, at the ripe old age of 74 (youngest child 6!!) ::)
I want what he was on!! ;D
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Arranroots,
Didn't the parish sometimes put pressure on unmarried parents to marry?
Could this have been a kind of 19th century style CSA?
Debbie ;)
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:D :D :D
Does it not read 'Scarbrough Farm Home' on the 1881 Census. and therefore perhaps some sort of charitable institution ?
Which would make sence of Will being described as being 'here on sufferance' whilst she, an unmarried mother, could have been working as a housekeeper elsewhere.
D ;D ;D
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;D ;D
Or...... as happened then, the term 'housekeeper' meant nothng more than common-law wife.
:D :D
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No, it is a farm house Mobo. This is wildest cotswold country!
He is a farm bailiff in 1891
Debbie - yes, it would be interesting to see whether an affiliation order exists.
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Hi Arranroots,
Could you let me have a copy of Wiiliam on the 1891 census please?
William is the brother of my gggrandmother, I think! He was married to a Sarah Boulton. I have found a Sarah Dowdeswell on the 1881 census and am going to do some more research on her to see if I can find out if she and Sarah Boulton are the same person. She is down as a widow but with an old reprobate like William as a husband, maybe she felt that was the appropriate title to give!!!! It might also explain the reason William and Emma aren't married in 1881 - or am I letting my imagination run wild here?!!! ;D ;D
Kind regards,
Maggie :)
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certainly can, Maggie - bear with me...
A ;)
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Here he is
RG12/2038 91 13
DOWDESWELL William H M 74 - farm bailiff - Glos Kineton
DOWDESWELL Emma W M 34 - Glos Cheltenham (Gotherington is near Cheltenham)
DOWDESWELL William son 11 - Glos Cutsdean
DOWDESWELL John son 10 - ditto
DOWDESWELL Elizabeth dau 6 - Stow on the Wold
SMITH William nephew U 22 - blacksmith - Glos Yaunton (Naunton?)
Address: South Hill Farm, Lower Swell, Gloucestershire
Note that some of these villages "move" between Glos & Worcs in different censuses.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
(BTW is that his son born Swell fields I can see on this census? Living Castle Eaton)
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Hi Arranroots,
Thanks for that - isi nephew William comes from Naunton I think. That's where the Smiths were living at the time.
Please could I have the census entry for the possible son living in Castle Eaton. It might be his son or it might be his nephew - it's quite a large family and they all tended to originate from Temple Guiting, Swell Fields (which I think was Lower Swell?) and that area.
Thanks for the information about the two counties - I did wonder... ???
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Ok here is another boundary area for you, this time Wiltshire. (I used to pass this farm on the school bus every day!)
RG12/1579 104 5
DOWDESWELL William H M 37 - farmer - Glos Swellfields
DOWDESWELL Sarah E W M 31 - Wilts Blunsdon
DOWDESWELL Gertrude H dau 4 - Wilts Castle Eaton
DOWDESWELL Maud E dau 7 months - ditto
MILLS Susannah serv 12 - gen serv dom - Gloucestershire Barrington Down
Address: Castle Eaton Farm, Castle Eaton, Wiltshire
A ;)
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Thanks again Arranroots ;)
William H Dowdeswell appears to be the son of Charles Dowdeswell - William's (of sufferance fame) nephew.
I have him on the 1881 census living with his father at Pinnock Farm, Didbrook, Glos. (he is one of the ones with A/L after his occupation which you were helping me to solve in an earlier posting!)
He appears to be a farmer in his own right now. I think they must have been tenant farmers because they certainly move around the area a bit - cross county too!!! ;D
Is the farm still there today? You say that you passed it on the school bus - it's really good to think of these places in 'real' terms rather than as names on a census form. There I go getting carried away again .... :D
Thanks again for your help.
Maggie
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I know that this is an old thread but I only just found it - and was struck by a coincidence.
In 1851, Charles A White was living at Scarborough Farm with his housekeeper, Catherine Jeynes - and they too later married. They were closer in age, though, both being in their 40s :)
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There is another coincidence, Tricia. One of William's ancestors named relatives "Gine/Gyne" in his will of 1617.
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... One of William's ancestors named relatives "Gine/Gyne" in his will of 1617.
Interesting! My gt gt grandmother was Esther Jeynes / Jeans / Geens. :)
(Sorry for such a late reply!)