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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 12:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 12:16 GMT (UK)
I have just obtained the images of several of my family's baptism, marriage and burial records from a Lutheran Church in Germany in the 19th century.  And they are full of crucial information!  I'm OK with translating German text to English, when I know the words (!), but the old handwriting is hard to read and I have only managed to identify a few names, dates and other words.  Is anyone willing to have an initial look at one of the images (eg. by e-mail, or attachment here, or ..?) and see if they can decipher the script for me?

Thanks in advance .....

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: arthurk on Saturday 04 January 20 13:39 GMT (UK)
You can post them here as attachments - some members are very good at reading old German script, and others of us have learned bits here and there.

But please bear in mind that we're all volunteers and don't like to feel overwhelmed. If you post them all at once we might feel it's too much and pass on to the next message, or do the easy ones and overlook the others. A little at a time and everyone should be happy.  :)
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 14:09 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your sound advice, Arthur.

I'm attaching just one (baptism) image for now.  I'm particularly keen to know the "descriptions" of the father (col 5) and each of the six godparents (col 7).  German words needed, translation suggestions optional but gratefully received!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: arthurk on Saturday 04 January 20 14:23 GMT (UK)
For the father, I think it gives his occupation as Stubenmaler (house painter) and something else.

[residence] am Roßmarkt allhier - at Roßmarkt in this place

gebürtig aus Zeitz - native of Zeitz

For the rest, over to others I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 15:40 GMT (UK)
One useful new insight for me there, Arthur - thank you!

Let's see what others can suggest.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 04 January 20 17:23 GMT (UK)
Col 2-Tag und Stunde der Geburt
Donnerstag den drei und zwanzigsten(23) Oktober
Abends ¾ auf fünf Uhr (4:45 pm in the evening)

Col 3-Tauftag (baptism)
Sonnabend den zweiten(02) November
in der Kirche durch den ? Diac(on) (deacon) Schmidt

written below the columns 2 and 3
Durch die Hebamme Mayer gemeldet. (reported by the midwife Mayer)

Col 4-Taufname des Kindes
Friedrich Gustav
ehel(icher) 4 Kind, 2 Sohn (4th legitimate child, second son)

Col 5-Name und Stand des Vaters (Fathers name and social status)
Friedrich David Keicher
Stubenmaler und Einwohner (Lodger, Dayworker)
am Roßmarkt, allhier, gebürtig aus Zeitz

Col 6-Name der Mutter
Fr(au) Johanne Dorotheee
geb Scheidt aus Weimar, des Friedrich David Keichers erste Ehefrau (1st wife)

Col 7-Name, Stand und Aufenthaltsort der Taufpathen
1. Johann Andreas Scheidt, Hufenerbesitzers und Lohnkutscher, allhier
2. Fr(au) Wilhelmine, Mstr(Meister) Ernst Haases, Bürgers und Buchbinders allhier, Ehefrau
3. Mstr(Meister) Johann Friedrich Döring, Bürger und Fläschner, allhier
4. Fr(au) Concordia, Mstr(Meister) Friedrich Schmidts,  Bürgers und Tischlers allhier, Ehefrau
5. Mstr(Meister) Joseph Denk, Bürger und Tischler, allhier
6. Fr(au) Henriette Louise, Mstr(Meister) Karl Schoberleiter´s,  Bürgers und Schneiders allhier Ehefrau

Occupations
1. Hufenerbesitzer (Hufen owner) – A Hufner, was a farmer who managed a plot of land (German: Hufe) as his own property
Lohnkutscher – hireable coachman

2. Bürger – a citizen with all civil rights
Buchbinder - book binder

3. Fläschner (Flaschner) - Tinsmith, plumber

4. Tischler – Carpenter

5. Schneider – Tailor

regards
Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 17:59 GMT (UK)
Dave, that's absolutely fantastic - thank you!!

Only one uncertainty for me in your translations:  the father (FDK) was already known from a later British record to have been a "painter", and as Arthur noted in an earlier post, a Stubenmaler is a house painter. So does your your rendering "Lodger, Dayworker" apply to the second word, which you have read as Einwohner (= inhabitant?)?

Many thanks again.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 04 January 20 18:07 GMT (UK)
Thats right
Einwohner someone who lived in = lodger
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 19:07 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Dave.  I plan to add further images here soon, one by one, and if you are willing to have a bash at any of those too, I shall continue to be extremely grateful!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 04 January 20 19:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike

let´s see what you´ve got 8)

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 04 January 20 19:42 GMT (UK)
OK ... here's the marriage record (Zeitz, 1825), in 2 parts, of the parents in the baptism record posted earlier.   Note the variant spelling Keucher (which later became Keicher (etc)).

Part 2 is of greatest interest to me ... all the details of the groom and bride!  I think I have their parents' names correct, and their own ages, but not much else. So a full transcript (+ maybe a translation) would be ideal.

Anything from part 1, esp. col 5, would be a bonus.

Thanks in advance ...

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 05 January 20 09:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike, 
Phew, don´t need many of that calibre a day :)
-------------------
Column 1- Nr
Trauung

Column 2-Tag der Trauung
Dom Miserico(rdias)
den 17 April

Column 3-Ort der Trauung
In der Kirche
zu St Trini
tatis in Zeitz

Column 4- Art der Trauung
Öffentlich

Column 5- Ob und wann des Aufgebots geschehen
In der Kirche zu St Trinitatis
in Zeitz
Fer(ia) II Pasch(at)
Dom Quasim(odogeniti)
Dom Miserico(rdias)
auf beigebrachten Obervor-
mundschftl(ichen) HeiratsCons(ens)
von Seiten des Bräutigams
und schrifttl(ich) abgegeb(ener) Einwill(igung)
von der Brautmutter

Column 6-Namen des Bräutigams
Friedrich David Keucher, ange
hender Einwohner und Decorati
onsmahler zu Zeitz. Des verstor
benen Johann Gottfied Keuchers, Bürger und Fuhrmanns
allhier. nachgel(assene) ehel(iche) 2 Sohn
ledig von Standes, 20 Jahr alt

Column 7-Namen der Braut
Jgfr(au) Johanne Dorothee Scheidt
Zeither in Zeitz in Herrschaftl(ichen) Dienst
sten. Das verstorbenen Andreas
Scheidts gewesenen Wachters und
Einwohners in Hainichen bei Jena
nachgel(assene) ehel(iche) 3 Tochter, 27 Jahr
alt

--------------------------------------------------

Column 1-
marriage

Column 2- Day of marriage
Dom Miserico(rdias)
the 17 April

Column 3- Place of marriage
In the St Trinitatis church in Zeitz

Column 4- Type of marriage
Public (in other records you can see „in der Stille“ = quiet Marriage no public)

Column 5- if, and when the Banns were proclaimed
In the St Trinitatis church in Zeitz

Fer(ia) II Pasch(at)
Dom Quasim(odogeniti)
Dom Miserico(rdias)

the bridesgrooms consent to marry from the local authorities
written consent from the brides mother

Column 6-Name of the Bridesgroom
Friedrich David Keucher, prospective einwohner, painter and decorator in Zeitz.
Legitimate, single, 2nd  son of the deceased Johann Gottfied Keuchers, Bürger and carter/wagoner, from here. 20 years old

Column 7-Name of the Bride
Spinster Johanne Dorothee Scheidt, in Zeitz in herrschaftlichen Diensten
Legitimate, 3rd Daughter of the deceased Andreas Scheidts, former Watchman and Einwohners in Hainichen near Jena. 27 years old

----------------------------------

herrschaftlichen Diensten = working for the local gentry / upper class
------------------------------

Fer(ia) II Pasch(at)   - Easter sunday
Dom Quasim(odogeniti)  - 1. sunday after Easter
Dom Miserico(rdias)  - 2. sunday after easter

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Sunday 05 January 20 09:41 GMT (UK)
That's superb, Dave!  Thank you so much.

I'll give you a break!   ;D

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 05 January 20 09:58 GMT (UK)
no problem, glad to help

Don´t wait to long ;D  - at my age you have to keep the synapse sparking

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Sunday 05 January 20 10:45 GMT (UK)
OK!

Here's the burial record of FDK in Zeitz, 1870 (incl. his birth date!).  NB. The left-hand column of part 2 is slightly truncated in the image.

I already have some of this info. from previous results, of course.  Any "new" facts gratefully received.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 05 January 20 20:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike

here you go.

1- Nr 182
Wittwer (widower)

2-Vor- und Zuname und Wohnort des Verstorbenen (name and place of residence)
Friedrich David Keicher in der Rufenstraße Wohnhaft, geboren in hiesigen Vaterstadt
angeblich den 4.12.1804
Born in the local „Vaterstadt“ date of birth was given as the 4.12.1804

3- Stand und Konfession des Verstorbenen (status and religion)
Stubenmaler
allhier, ev(angelische) Conf(ession)

4- Alter
Im 66 Jahre

5- Ob der Verstorbenen einen Gatten und majorenne oder minorenne Kinder hinterlassen
who did he leave behind (hinterlassen)


Er starb als Wittwer und Hüter
134? 2 mit seiner am 6 October ? Verstorbenen Ehefrau Johanne geborene Scheidt
früher Scheide aus Hainbuchen bei Jena.
Hintrl (hinterlässst gezeugte major: Kinder ? 1 Sohn und 1 Tochter

He died as widow and guardian of the children he had with Johanne nee Scheidt
earlier Scheide from Hainbuchen near Jena.
He leaves 2 major(enne): children 1 son 1 daughter

6- Tag und Stunde des Todes in Buchstaben und Zahlen (day and time of death)
Mittwoch den vier und Zwanzigsten August 1870, 24 August
Nachmittags um 1 Uhr (at 1 pm)

7- Krankheit woran er gestorben ist (cause of death)

8- Welchem Prediger die Anzeige des Todesfalls geschehen, und wie er sich überzeugt das der Verstorbene wirklich der gewesen, für welchen der ausgegeben worden. (Name of the priest and how he convinced himself that the deceased was the right person)
Herr Archdiacon Gräfenhan
Angemeldet durch die Leichenschauerin Winkler (registered by the Leichenschauerin Winkler)

corpse inspector!
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichenschau

9- Tag des Begräbnisses (burial day)
Freitag den sechs und Zwanzigsten, 26, August, gegen Abend (about evening time)

10-11 Kirchhof und Ort des Begräbnisses (Church and burial place)
In der Stille mit 6 Paar Schuhe unter geistliche Begleitung auf den Ober-Johannis-Gottesacker
Still or quiet burial with 6 pairs of shoes, accompanied by the clergy, in the Ober-Johannis-Gottesacker (Gods meadow = cemetry)

A still ceremony was without public and only with the neccessary church service.
I have never heard of the tradition of burying someone with shoes.

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 05 January 20 20:30 GMT (UK)
I have just read up on an old tradition that commited school children to attend burials.

That coud say Schüle and not schuhe, school and not shoes

https://books.google.es/books?id=Piuzq8DosnwC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=mit+6+paar+schule+beerdigung&source=bl&ots=U-v7-Tmk_8&sig=ACfU3U0AecsO33s3340MhqjWK4gjLLoy2A&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC6J3igu3mAhWo4IUKHdKUBzsQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mit%206%20paar%20schule%20beerdigung&f=false

See no 6.
It says the children should leave the church paarweise - pair wise

That would mean he was escorted bei the clergy and 6 pairs of school children
Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Sunday 05 January 20 21:43 GMT (UK)
Brilliant, Dave!  The level of detail is remarkable, is it not?  Thank you once again.

Knowing you're still game, I'll add another record tomorrow.

Mike

Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Sunday 05 January 20 22:10 GMT (UK)
Here's the record of son FGK's first marriage (at St Michael's, Zeitz, 1861) to Wilhelmine Wagner.

I have most of the names, but I'd like to have any information "not previously transcribed", especially a translation of FGK's "description" in col 2.

And is there any mention of the nearby town of Pegau / Begau ?

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Monday 06 January 20 11:04 GMT (UK)
1- Nr
Hainichen

2-Name, Status, residence bridesgroom
FGK jun(ior), Maler und Photograph (painter and photographer)
allhier, ehelicher, 4 Kind, 2 Sohn
allhier geboren den 23 October 1834
evangelische Confession

3-Name, Status, residence of parents
FDK, Stubenmaler und Einwohner von hier.
Frau Johanne Dorotheee, geborene Scheidte, gestorben (deceased)

4- Age bridesgroom
26 ¾ Jahre

5- if and when the parents gave their consent
Der Vater hat sein Einwilligung mündlich gegeben
The father gave his consent by word of mouth

6-previous marriages
noch nicht verehelicht
was not previously married

7-Name, Status, residence bridesmaid
Wilhelmine Wagner, eheliche 1 Kind und Tochter
zu Podebuls geboren, den 7 Mai 1830
legitimate 1 child, daughter, born in  Podebuls
evangelische Confession

8-Name, Status, residence of parents
Christian Friedrich Wagner, Nachbar und Schmiedemeister (neighbour and master blacksmith), zu Hainichen
Frau Johanne Rebecke geborene Beer, gestorben

9- Age bridesmaid
31 1/12 Jahre

10-if and when the parents gave their consent
Der Vater hat sein Einwilligung mündlich gegeben
The father gave his consent by word of mouth

11-previous marriages
noch nicht verehelicht
was not previously married

12-Banns
1, 2, 3 p. Trinitas
zu Sct. Michael hier.


13-day and type of marriage
Dom. Trinitas den Sechszehnten, 16 Juni, nach dem nachmittags  Gottesdienst,öffentlich zu Sct Michael. hier.
public marriage, after the afternoon church service  in St Michael

14- Priest
Herr Deacon Fiedler


Notation under columns 10,11,12
Laut Procol von 30 Mai 1861
Bem(erkung), die Braut hat am 9 November 1857, ein unehel(iche) Tochter, 1 Kind geboren.
Der Bräutigam erkennt dieses Kind als von Ihm erzeugt.

Protokoll N. 60 bei der Acten

according to the protocol from 30 May 1861
comment. The bride gave birth to an illegitimate daughter, her first child, on the 9 November 1857.
The bridesgroom admitted being the father of the child.

Protokoll N. 60 in the files

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 06 January 20 11:17 GMT (UK)
Super again, Dave ... thank you.  Flesh on the part-known bones!

A few more later, until you object!!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 06 January 20 12:52 GMT (UK)
Here are short extracts from the baptism records of FGK's three siblings.

Seeking any "new" info from the "descriptions" of the parents in each case.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Monday 06 January 20 14:42 GMT (UK)
AA
eheliche 2 Kind

Friedrich David Keicher, Mauergesell (bricklayer) und Stubenmaler, ein Einwohner am Altmarkt, allhier
gebürtig aus Zeitz, evangelischer Religion

Johanne Dorothee geborene Scheidt, gebürtig aus Weimar
das gesachten (gesagten) Friedrich David Keicher, erster Ehefrau, evangelischer Religion

DP
eheliche 1 Kind

Friedrich David Keicher, Einwohner und Mauergesell (bricklayer) auch Stubenmaler, allhier
gebürtig aus Zeitz,  am Altmarkt wohnhaft (resident)

Johanne Dorothee geborene Scheidt, gebürtig aus Weimar
das gesachten (gesagten) Friedrich David Keicher, erster Ehefrau

WF
eheliche 3 Kind

Friedrich David Keicher, Mauergesell (bricklayer) und Stubenmaler am Altmarkt
hieselbst geboren (born here)

Johanne Dorothee geborene Scheidt, gebürtig aus Weimar
das gesachten (gesagten) Friedrich David Keicher, erster Ehefrau
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 06 January 20 14:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Dave.  Another occupation for FDK!

The whole of the here-attached marriage record is very important for me, particularly the bride's previous marital status etc (col 11).

Gratefully ...

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Monday 06 January 20 19:03 GMT (UK)
No 1

Friedrich Glück
N(achbar) u(nd)  Einw(ohner) in          Nachbar = neighbour
Purtschitz ein                                    I think Purtschitz is a misspelling of Burtschütz
Wittwer, - evang(elische)
Conf(ession)

Weil(and) Gottfried Glücks,              Weiland = deceased
N(achbarn u(nd) A(nspänners)         Anspänner = horse groom on an estate
In Techwitz u(nd) seiner
verst(orbene) Ehefrau
Sabine, geb? Schramm
aus Glaßnitz, ehel(iche)
älteste. Sohn

47 Jahre 5 Monate

Beide Eltern verstorben                   both parents deceased

Wittwer

Wilhelmine Wagner, ev(angelische) Conf(ession)


No 2
Christian Friedrich Wagners
Nachbars u(nd)
Schmiedemeisters zu                      Schmiedmeister = master black smith
Hainichen und seiner
verst(orbene) Ehefrau Jo
hanne Rebecke
geb Beer. ehel(iche)
1 Kind

37 ½ Jahre

Laut Präsentation                          according to the exposure
vom Oberpfarramte                       of the senior priests office
zu St.Michael in
Zeitz sind die
gesetzl(iche) Erforder                  the legal requirements are fulfilled
nisse erfüllt

Rechtskräftig                              legally binding divorce from Keicher
geschiedene Kei
cher

hier und zu St.
Michael in Zeitz
Dom. Rogate, Exaudi
et II Pentekoste

Zehnten
10 ten, Juni
zu St. Mi
chael in
Zeitz
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 06 January 20 19:12 GMT (UK)
Brilliant, Dave!  "Legally binding divorce" is just what I was hoping to hear!!

Not many left now.

This is the burial record of JDK (née S). The principal names, dates and ages are clear, but there could well be some valuable extra info hiding from me ...

Sorry for the poorer quality here.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 07:30 GMT (UK)
212
Ehefrau

Frau Johanne Dorothee Keicher geb
Scheidte (Kalkgasse), zu Hainichen bei Jena.
Geboren angebl(ich) den 13.12.1798

Das hiesigen (local) Stubenmalers Friedrich
David Keicher, Ehe
frau, evangel(ische) Conf(ession)

59 J.
9 m
23 Tage

Hinterläßt (leaves) ihrem
genannten (above named) Ehemann
und 2 Kinder.
1 major Tochter,
1 minor Sohn

Mittwochs
den 6 October,
früh um drei
Uhr (died at 3 am on Wednesday the 6 Oct)

Leberverhärtung u(nd)
Wassersucht (died of Cirrhosis and Hydrops / Edema / Anasarca)

Herr Diakon Dr
Krüger,
Wöchner         (=Weeker - the clergyman responsible for the weeks church ceremonies)
durch den
Grabenbitter    (=or Leichenbitter.  a person who proclaimed the death and time of burial)                                                                 
Eberlein
gemeldet

Sonnabend
den
neunten
9
October
früh

Mit der Viertel
Schule in der
Stille auf den
Ober-Johannis
Gottesacker

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 08:42 GMT (UK)
Perfect, Dave.  Thank you!

This one is a small extract from the marriage record of CEK (a sister of FDK), giving her father's and most importantly THEIR MOTHER'S names -- and what else? (esp. the words between those two names ...).

Mike

Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 10:45 GMT (UK)
Jungfrau CEK
des verstorbene Bürgers und Hausbesitzers
auch Fuhrmanns, Johann Gottfried
Keucher in Zeitz, und seine auch verstorbene
2ten Ehefrau, Johanna Rosina geb. Schoffel
hinterlassene Zwillings Tochter, 8 tes Kind, allhier
geboren, zeithier in Naunburg in Herrschaftlichen Diensten
37 ¼ Jahr alt

CEK was a twin, the 8th Child of the deceased JGK and his deceased 2nd wife JRS

if you need help with the other text let me know

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 11:02 GMT (UK)
That's great, Dave -- confirming several things I'd expected / guessed!

And here is the 1817 burial record of FDK's father, JGK (known to be deceased by 1825).  Any useful extra / corroborating info (esp. his status) gratefully received.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 12:26 GMT (UK)
Ehemann

Freitag 21.Feb at 1 am

Abends in der Stille mit 6 Paar Schüler
auf den unteren Joh(annis) Gottesacker

Bürger und Handarbeiter, allhier

JGK

im 63 Lebensjahr

Halsentzündung – Inflamation of the throat

War verheiratet an Maria Rosine geb. Schoffler
aus Dschbitzschen (Dobitzschen) welche er als Wittwe nebst 2 Söhnen und 2.
Töchter aus erster Ehe und 3 Töchter aus diese Ehe hinterlässt

He left 2 sons and 2 daughters form his 1st widowed marriage
and 3 daughters from his 2nd marriage
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 12:34 GMT (UK)
Excellent. Thank you, Dave!

Nearly there now ...

This is the baptism record of ALW, the daughter of WW born in 1857, four years before the latter's marriage to FGK (thereupon the avowed father).  I can see no mention of him on this record ... can you?

Any other info relevant to the principals' various "statuses" (only) would be much appreciated. I don't need the godparents etc, unless you spot something important!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 12:50 GMT (UK)
No, no mention of him.

1
unehelich – illigitimate daughter
Tochter

2
unehelich Kind und Tochter– illigitimate child and daughter

4
dieses Kind wurde außer der Ehe gezeugt und geboren – this chld was concieved and born out of wedlock
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 13:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Dave!

And finally (I think!) ..... here are extracts from the marriage records of two more of FDK's sisters.  I'm just after the usual useful info in their "descriptions".

Poor readability on one of them. Many thanks for the effort!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 17:00 GMT (UK)
JSK

Christian Gottlob Friedel, Einwohn(er)
Schuhmacher allhier,  Christian               Shoe maker
Gottfried Friedels, gewes(ene) Bürgers
und Schumachers in Groitzsch (Groitzschen) nachgel(assene)
ehel(icher) 3 ten Sohn, ledigen Standes,
19 Jahr alt

Johanne Sofie Keucher, Joh(ann)
Gottfried Keuchers, gewes(ene) Bürgers
und Fuhrmanns allh(ier) nachgel(assene), ehel(iche)
älteste Tochter
19 Jahr alt
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 17:30 GMT (UK)
JRK

Carl August Eichorn
Einwohner auch Zeug- Lein- und
Wollenweber1 allhier, Carl August
Eichhorns, Bürgers und Handarbeiters
ehel(icher) ältester Sohn, ledigen
Standes, 27 Jahr alt

Johanne Rosina Keucher, des ver
storbenen Johann Gottfried Keuchers
Bürgers und Fuhrmanns allhier
vor dem Badestubenthore2, nachgel(assene), ehel(iche)
jüngste Tochter, 25 Jahr alt


1The hyphen after Zeug- and Lein-  are place holders for the ending weber
saved writing weber 3 times.

Zeugweber – cloth weaver
Leinweber  - Linen weaver
Wollenweber – woll weaver

2by the doors of the bathhouse
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 17:36 GMT (UK)
Well, thank you yet again, Dave.  Remarkable detail!

I'm extremely grateful for all the rapid and effective help you have given me over the past four days. This forum is very lucky to have you here.

I intend to make a small contribution to a charity in recognition of the support you've given me.  Would you like you choose one, or shall I?

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 07 January 20 18:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike,
no problem, glad to be of help

a contribution to a charity sounds a good thing.

Regards
Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 07 January 20 18:08 GMT (UK)
BRAVO!   :D
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: Karen McDonald on Tuesday 07 January 20 20:04 GMT (UK)
I intend to make a small contribution to a charity in recognition of the support you've given me.  Would you like you choose one, or shall I?

Mike

What a lovely gesture!

(And well done to Dave, too, of course!)

Best regards,
Karen
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Saturday 11 January 20 09:49 GMT (UK)
Still there Dave?   :)

What do you make of these two extracts?

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 12 January 20 20:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike
difficult stuff. Here´s my 2 cents

JFK 1824
Einwohner und Herschafft(licher) Kutscher
zu Zeitz. Nach Aktes von....1819 rechtskräftig geschieden von
Seiner ersten Ehegattin, und gestattet
sich anderweitig zu verehel(ichen), 44 Jahr alt

Aktes von...1819= court case from 1819
rechtskräftig = legally binding
geschieden = divorced
gestattet = allowed
anderweitig = elsewhere
verehelichen = to marry


JFK 1805
v.J. Herschafft(licher) Kutscher
allhier, Johann Gottfried Keiger
Bürger und Fuhrmanns, allhier
ehel(iche) zweiter Sohn, erster Ehe

Johanne Christiane Feinerten,
weil(and) Johann Christian Feinertes
gewesenen Handarbeiters, allhier
ehel(iche) nachgel(assene) jüngste Tochter

weiland = deceased
gewesen = former
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Sunday 12 January 20 20:57 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Dave.  I'm now sure they are the same man, as I'd suspected.

I can do something with him now!

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 13 January 20 11:43 GMT (UK)
Dave: I can read some, but not all, of this extract.

Can you help, esp. with the final column?

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Monday 13 January 20 12:39 GMT (UK)
Einwohner und Handarbeiter in der
?Scharren?str

Im 58 Lebensjahr

Verunglückt in einem Steinbruch.
Killed by accident in a stone quarry

War zu zweiten male verheiratet mit Frau Johanne Christiane, vorher geschiedene Chrißner, geb
Gözel, und hinterlässt diese seiner Ehefrau, und 5 Kinder aus seiner ersten, gerichtlich, getrennten Ehe, als 4 Söhne unter welchen ein unmündiger und 1 Tochter

He was in his second marriage with  Frau Johanne Christiane, divorced Chrißner, nee Gözel.
He leaves 5 children from his first legally divorced marriage.
4 Sons, one of them under age
1 Daughter
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Monday 13 January 20 12:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 14 January 20 08:05 GMT (UK)
Dave: I thought I had finished (!), but at the last minute this burial turns out to be very important to me.

Can you please help? (esp. with the final column, which I think may be the key to it all).

Thank you.

Mike
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: Karen McDonald on Tuesday 14 January 20 11:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike,

I've been itching to help but was always too slow or couldn't read the docs!  ::)

This one is easier.

The final column states that the deceased leaves behind 4 children of full age: 1 son and 2 legitimate daughters plus one illegitimate daughter.

Is that what you were hoping to hear?  ;)

Best regards,
Karen
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: davecapps on Tuesday 14 January 20 12:23 GMT (UK)
Karen did the last column

Just thought i´d add the other info

Widower 74

Freitags den 27 November, nachmittags 2 Uhr

Montags den 30 November

Gegen Abend in der Stille mit der Viertelschule, auf den hiesigen unteren Johannis Gottesacker

Frau Maria Rosina Keucher, geborene Schoffel

Des verstorbene Johann Gottfried Keuchers, gewesene Bürgers und Hausbesitzers vor dem Badestubenthore hinterlassene Witwe

im 70 Lebensjahr

Entkräftung in Folge hohen Alters (enfeeblement due to old age)

Dave
Title: Re: Help needed with deciphering C19 German script
Post by: piker on Tuesday 14 January 20 12:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Karen ... and thank you, Dave.

Just what I expected and needed!

Mike