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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: DebsR on Tuesday 31 December 19 17:28 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
My parents and I have been trying to identify family members in old photos, so I will probably be posting quite a few in the coming weeks!
My grandma, Hilda YOUNG (born 1899), is the child in the group photo, probably taken in Hemel Hempstead, England. We don't know when the photo was taken or how old she was.
We know that the older couple in the same photograph were her grandparents, but we're not 100% sure which ones. They could be:
Richard Young (b.1829, d. 1911) and Sarah Young (nee Brown, b. 1834, d. 1908)
or
David Mead (b. 1833, d. 1905) and Ellen Mead (nee Cutler, b. 1833, d. 1905).
We previously thought the couple to be the Meads, from memory based on past conversations with older generations. However we have discovered 'Grandad Young' written on the back of an individual picture of the man (also attached; this is on thick card). It therefore seems likely the couple is the Youngs, but we would love to have a bit more certainty.
We would appreciate if anyone can help to date the photographs? If later than 1905, that would rule out the Meads who both died that year. Similarly, any clues as to the age of the girl (Hilda YOUNG) in the photo, who was born 1899, could help date the group photo. Any other comments on the photos e.g. attire, surroundings, etc, would also be very much of interest to us!
Many thanks
Debs
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Hello Debs,
I think that you may have forgotten to attach your images ?
Regards
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah - I was having trouble getting repeated error messages about duplicated file names but have now managed to add them!
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Surely they are Youngs? :-\
- given that I would say the two gents are the same person and the writing on the back of the second says Young? Or is that writing recent?
or have I missed something obvious? :-\ :)
Wiggy
added . . . . . the girl definitely looks older that 5-6 I think.
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Agree with Wiggy - Young - and same gentleman.
The girl looks 9-10ish to me.
Gadget
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I also agree except I think the girl is about 12.
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Before reading the other replies, I thought that Hilda looked to be about ten years old. She couldn’t be any older if grandma Young died in 1908. :)
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I think the first one is Edwardian and the second one 1870s and the girls looks to be around 10 years old I would say.
Carol
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Was you James Young a Widower before he married Sarah Brown? I have a Richard Young in my tree,he married Ann Allum(my 1st cousin 3x removed) in 1849,they were only married for a little while as Ann died in 1850.
1851 I have Richard with his parents James and Sarah in Burymill End Hemel Hempstead.
1911 I have Richard living at 2 Anchor Lane Boxmoor.
Is this the same Richard Young as you have?
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Sorry to change the subject, but...
How far back have you traced your David Mead and his family? This is my main area of interest, the Mead family in the area around Watford-Aylesbury-Leighton Buzzard.
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Thank you Wiggy, Gadget, a-l, Ruskie and Treetotal for your swift and helpful replies! I should have said explicitly in my first post that we realise it’s the same man in each photo. The issue was that the writing on the back of the photo ‘Grandad Young’ may have been ‘relatively’ recent, so I was not 100% sure of its accuracy. That aside, it seems the general consensus is that Hilda looks older than 5/6 in the photo (I agree), in which case the photo cannot be of the Meads, who both died when Hilda was 5/6, so it must be the Youngs!
Maureen/Vance - thank you both for your messages too - I'll reply separately!
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Was you James Young a Widower before he married Sarah Brown? I have a Richard Young in my tree,he married Ann Allum(my 1st cousin 3x removed) in 1849,they were only married for a little while as Ann died in 1850.
1851 I have Richard with his parents James and Sarah in Burymill End Hemel Hempstead.
1911 I have Richard living at 2 Anchor Lane Boxmoor.
Is this the same Richard Young as you have?
Hi Maureen,
Yes, that's the same Richard Young. I hadn't realised he had a short marriage to Ann Allum before marrying Sarah Brown in 1853, when he was aged around 24. Now I've reviewed the 1851 census, I see he is marked as a widower. Do you know what happened to Ann and whether or not they had any children before she died? I haven't seen any evidence of any.
Best Wishes
Debs
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Sorry to change the subject, but...
How far back have you traced your David Mead and his family? This is my main area of interest, the Mead family in the area around Watford-Aylesbury-Leighton Buzzard.
Hi Vance
Not much further back than David I'm afraid. His parents were Joseph Mead (b. around 1801 in Wing, Buckinghamshire) and Susannah Bedford (b. around 1801 in Soulbury, Buckinghamshire). I don't have Joseph's parents. I have Susannah Bedford's parents down as William and Ann, and that's it. Let me know if you want any detail on Joseph or Susannah.
How far back have you reached? We'd be very interested in seeing any records and/or photos you have of the Meads. What is your relationship to David?
Best Wishes
Debs
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First I searched the batch numbers for Wing (M014631, P014631) in Family Search. These are the relevant results, in family groups:
1719 (Unnamed Mead) son of Thomas Mead
1721 Richard Mead son of Thomas Mead
1723 Thomas Mead son of Thomas Mead and Rebecca
1725 William Mead son of Thomas Mead and Rebecca
1746 William Mead son of Richard Mead and Dorcas
1749 William Mead son of William Mead and Elizabeth
1751 Elizabeth Mead daughter of William and Elizabeth
1752 Mary Mead daughter of William and Elizabeth
1753 Rebecca Mead daughter of William and Elizabeth
1755 John Mead son of William and Elizabeth
1760 Ann Mead daughter of William and Elizabeth
1778 William Mead & Ann Chantrill
1778 William Mead son of William and Ann
1780 Elizabeth Mead daughter of William and Ann
1782 Mary Mead daughter of William and Ann
1786 William Mead & Ann Sanders
1787 Elizabeth daughter of William and Ann
1788 John Mead son of William Mead and Ann
1790 Thomas Mead son of William and Ann
1792 William Mead son of William and Ann
1794 Francis Mead son of William and Ann
1796 Joseph Mead son of William and Ann
So that's your Joseph, born on 1796. In the 1841 census his age is 40, but this would be a range of 40-45 years. There are two William Meads (and both married Ann!), one the son of William and Elizabeth and the other the son of Richard and Dorcas. (Or possible one William Mead married twice). I don't know which is the right one here, but they both must be the children of Thomas and Rebecca.
To be continued...
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I don't know how to get back before Thomas Mead and Rebecca. There were people named Mead in Wing back to 1500, as well as in nearby parishes such as Stewkley and Soulbury. But there is a gap in the christening records:
1632 William Meade son of John and Margaret
1633 Thomas Meade son of John and Margaret
1636 Benatt Mead son of John and Margaret
1638 Elizabeth Mead daughter of John and Margaret
1640 Susanna Meade daughter of John and Margaret
1673 Anne Mead daughter of Thomas and Dorothy
And then nothing until 1719. There were, however, people named Mead living in Wing then, as shown in these entries from wills:
May 13 1690 William MEAD of Wing. Beneficiary of Mary BEAKE (DA /WE 42/03)
Dec 26 1715 John MEADE of Crofton, Wing. Cousin & beneficiary of Sarah PEELE (DA/WE 54/118)
Sep 26 1715 Thomas MEADE of Crofton, Wing. Cousin of Sarah PEELE (DA/WE 54/118)
Oct 22 1728 Richard MEAD of Burcott, Wing. Son in law & beneficiary of Samuel HOLT (DA/WF 80/38)
Sep 17 1733 William MEAD of Ascott, Wing. Tenant of Elizabeth REDMAN (DA/WF 82/172)
May 30 1739 Joseph MEAD of Cotslow, Wing. Witness of John ANSTEE (DA/WF 82/195)
(These are from a database made by a man named Shrimpton.)
Any of these might be the father of Thomas Mead the husband of Rebecca, but I don't have enough evidence.
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I don't have Ann's death cert,so I don't know what she died of.As they were only married a short time I don't think they had children,but she could have died in child birth.
Ann was buried 2nd Aug 1850 at St Mary's Church Hemel Hempstead.
Do you have Richard Young and Sarah Browns marriage cert,as it's on Find my past
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There's a site with a lot of information for Wing, but it's down now for maintenance.
http://wing-ops.org.uk/
But there are archived copies in the Way-back Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190102184554/http://wing-ops.org.uk/
There are some notes that explain the gaps in the late 17th century:
Baptisms: 5 Jul 1546 to 7 Sept 1749
“carelessly recorded” from 1685 to 1688
1646 to 1663 not entered until 1663
entries missing or defective in 1558 to 1560 & 1645
Marriages: missing entries from 8 Oct 1684 to 2 May 1695
1646 to 1663 not entered until 1663
entries missing or defective in 1558 to 1560 & 1645
For the future, I could have a look at manorial court rolls the
next time I go to Aylesbury. Possibly sometime this year.
Wing Court Rolls
1619-1724
D/BASM 83/1-3
Wing Court Rolls
1735-1772
D/BASM 83/4-5
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Vance - thank you so much for all the information you've sent on the Meads! It's very interesting to see there's a website devoted to Wing. I will take a bit of time to look through the details properly and be back in touch afterwards.
Maureen - I don't have any sort of documentation for the marriage between Richard Young and Sarah Brown; I simply know it took place on 23 Jul 1853 in Hemel Hempstead. If you are able to access the document/certificate, would you be able to transcribe any other information on there?
Many thanks
Debs
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Debs
If you can p.m me your email address I can email you Richard and Sarah's marriage cert to you.
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I have some information about Mead/Mede in Wing that isn't on the Wing one-place study.
These are from the Court of Common Pleas:
1501 Easter term/fronts 508
Bucks. Robert Stokys versus Richard Mede, of Wynge, husbandman; Richard Aleyn, of Adstoke, hubandman; Edward Russell, of Magna Missenden, butcher; and John Elyme or Glyme, of Chesseham, tanner. Debt.
1506 Easter/dorses 71
Bucks. Maurice Berkeley versus John Meryden, of Wyng, gent; and Richard Mede, of Wynge, husbandman. Trespass: close at Wyng.
1514 Michaelmas term/fronts a 144
Bucks. Margaret Vernon, prioress of St Mary de Pre Priory, St Albans, versus Richard Mede, of Wyng, husbandman. Trespass: close at Wyng.
And I have the will of William Mede of Crofton/Crafton in Wing, husbandman, in 1568
https://sites.google.com/site/meadfamilyhistory/home/wills/bucks/wills
Crafton is in the southern part of the parish, near Wingrave. I don't know if there is any connection to John and Thomas Meade of Crofton, Wing, recorded in 1715