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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: DFG on Saturday 28 December 19 23:07 GMT (UK)

Title: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 28 December 19 23:07 GMT (UK)
I'm in the USA and have been trying to find people from my ancestry that are still in Scotland or England, and can maybe give some idea of the Gibson line there.  My connections are from Colin Gibson son of

John Gibson B? D? M 19, Feb 1753 Renfrewshire, Scotland to Mary McNaught.   His Father would be

Thomas Gibson  B? D? M 10  Jan 1727 Renfrewshire, Scotland to Mary Reid and his father would be

William Gipson (Gibson)B? D? M? to Agnes Adam.

Also looking for information on Colin's wife Janet mentioned as a ship passenger.

Any help you might be able to help me with would be GREAT.

Information on Colin Gibson Below:

For Poverty and To Get Bread.  In "Commerce' Duncan Ferguson For New York.

Name: Colin Gibson
 Year: 1774
 Age: 25
 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1749
 Place: New York, New York
 Family Members: Wife Janet 23
 Source Publication Code: 1640.1
 Primary Immigrant: Gibson, Colin
 Annotation: Date and location of first mention of residence in New World, date and place of arrival, or date of emigration with intended destination. Extracted from records in Edinburgh.Date of emigration with intended destination, a few are date and place of first m
 Source Bibliography: DOBSON, DAVID. Directory of Scottish Settlers in North America, 1625-1825. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co. Volume 1. 1984. Reprinted, 1988. 267p.
 Page: 74
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 28 December 19 23:30 GMT (UK)
Is this correct?

Your Colin Gibson b c1749

Parents - John Gibson & Mary McNaught who married M 19 Feb 1753 Renfrewshire, Scotland

which would be 4 yrs after Colin's birth?

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 28 December 19 23:55 GMT (UK)
John Gibson M 19, Feb 1753 Renfrewshire, Scotland to Mary McNaught.   

I could only see one baptism to the above named *

There are other possibles with no mothers names showing?

Colin 1754 (how do you know Mary McNaught is his mother)?
Margaret 1757
Margaret 1758
Thomas 1761
John 1764 *

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Sunday 29 December 19 00:05 GMT (UK)
Interesting catch, I paid for a professional to help me find a family for Colin in Scotland.  What they returned to me was the information I posted, I didn't even question it.

Looking at the chart right now (again) they have "John Gibson"  M: 19 Feb 1753 P: Renfrewshire, Scotland.  They show Mary McNaught as spouse. (no other information, other than name)
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 29 December 19 00:24 GMT (UK)
What names do you have for the children of Colin in order?

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Monday 30 December 19 18:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Annie,

Sorry I got pulled away.

Below is what I believe to be true about Colin Gibson.  My Ancestry is from Mathew Gibson.

Individual Report for Colin GIBSON      
       
Individual Summary:   Colin GIBSON   
       
Sex:   Male   
Father:   John GIBSON   
Mother:   Mary MCNAUGHT   
       
Individual Facts:      
       
Birth:   "1749 in Renfrewshire, Scotland"   
Christening:   "04 Aug 1754 in , Eaglesham, Renfrew, Scotland"   
Arrival:   "1774 in New York, New York"   
Residence:   1774 in USA   
Residence:   Bet. 1774?1775 in USA   
Residence:   "1776 in Albany, Albany, New York, USA"   
Residence:   "1796 in Washington County, New York, USA : (Land record)"   
Residence:   "1799 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, USA"   
Residence:   "1800 in Cambridge, Washington, New York"   
Residence:   "1801 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, USA"   
Residence:   "1802 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, USA"   
Residence:   "1803 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, USA"   
Residence:   "1810 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, United States"   
Residence:   "1820 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, United States"   
Residence:   "1830 in Cambridge, Washington, New York, USA"   
Military Service:   "Albany, New York, USA"   
FamilySearch ID:   MWXL-PGD   
Death:   "Cambridge, Washington, NY, USA"   

Wife #1:   Janet UNKNOWN   
       
Wife #2:   Ellin STORY   
       
Children:   
   Matthew GIBSON   
   Maria GIBSON   
   Margaret GIBSON   
   John Dunlap GIBSON   
       
Wife #3:   Margaret MILLER   
       
Children:   Eleanor GIBSON   
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 31 December 19 05:14 GMT (UK)
With no known children to Janet it's even more difficult to try and work out possible parents names.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Tuesday 31 December 19 23:06 GMT (UK)
Annie - First and currently only information I have about  Janet is documents talking about this document I have several, but they say what this document says: 

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/10517/dvm_LocHist000167-00101-0?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=dvm_LocHist000167-00004-1

I would think if she died at sea it would be mentioned somewhere .... but ?????

DFG
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 27 August 22 00:18 BST (UK)
I have tried several platforms to get farther on Colin Gibson - but I haven't been able to get much farther.  Still looking for what happened to Janet, what happened to the boat "Brig Commerce" and where is Colin buried?

I know in Paisley there are several Gibson families - I'm hoping one of them is a relation.

Thanks,

Dean F. Gibson
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 27 August 22 01:26 BST (UK)
Your reply #5 says Colin is buried in Cambridge Washington. Have you looked at all possibles in Cambridge? Have you asked your researcher for more details?
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 27 August 22 02:03 BST (UK)
only information I have about  Janet is documents talking about this document I have several, but they say what this document says: 

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/10517/dvm_LocHist000167-00101-0?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=dvm_LocHist000167-00004-1

I would think if she died at sea it would be mentioned somewhere .... but ?????
I'd forgot about this thread...

The info. you've posted tells me nothing apart from the fact a Colin Gibson & a Jannet Gibson are both recorded on page 3, nothing in relation to age, occ, or anything else...
There's no indication of a/the relationship i.e. where did you find out Jannet was his wife & not his sister or other relation?
There are other Gibson people on page 4 who may be related?
Colin & Jannet may have been listed at the bottom of the page with the others on the next page but may all be from the same group/family?
Have you investigated further to see if there's a possible connection with those on pages 3 & 4?

The info. on the index(es) tells us nothing other than what's visible i.e. people listed on same pages.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 27 August 22 04:00 BST (UK)
I didn’t notice that this thread was a couple of years old.

Surely the researcher should have supplied you with more information as well as sources for the births, and other finds.  :-\
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 27 August 22 09:01 BST (UK)
Intrigued by the baptism in 1753 when he was three or four years old.

Have you looked at the original baptism record at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to see what it actually says? (If your researcher didn't do this, er ... ho ... hum ...)

Also, as it appears that Colin was illegitimate, have you looked to see if there is anything in the surviving Kirk Session minutes of Eaglesham?

Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 27 August 22 20:50 BST (UK)
https://exhibitions.nysm.nysed.gov/albany/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////bios/g/cogibson8176.html

Tells me as well as other documents that Janet was the wife of Colin Gibson when they arrived.

Sorry, I'm trying to learn this platform - not doing too well on it - I'm getting lost a lot.

Dean
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 27 August 22 20:55 BST (UK)
Your reply #5 says Colin is buried in Cambridge Washington. Have you looked at all possible in Cambridge? Have you asked your researcher for more details? --

I have tried "find a grave" and that didn't  result in anything.  So far can not find a notice of death in papers either, not able to find anything official about his death.

Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 27 August 22 21:04 BST (UK)
Have you looked at the original baptism record at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to see what it actually says? (If your researcher didn't do this, er ... ho ... hum ...) ----

Not willing to pay to see this (I think I have it anyway) -

GIBSON   COLIN   JOHN GIBSON/   M   04/08/1754   561/   10 117   Eaglesham   Buy c



Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 27 August 22 22:20 BST (UK)
Have you looked at the original baptism record at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to see what it actually says? (If your researcher didn't do this, er ... ho ... hum ...) ----

Not willing to pay to see this (I think I have it anyway) -

GIBSON   COLIN   JOHN GIBSON/   M   04/08/1754   561/   10 117   Eaglesham   Buy c
That is not a record. That is the index listing of it. The original handwritten record may contain information that is not in the index.

But if you aren't willing to pay a very modest fee to view the actual original records you may as well give up trying to do your family history now.
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 27 August 22 23:57 BST (UK)
I paid for a Genealogist that got me a picture of register entry for Colin Gibson  (old Parish Registers Births and Baptisms) 4 August 1754 - I have to believe that this would show me the same record. 

No mention of Mother though.  Believe her name would be Mary McNaught married 19 FEB 1753 to John Gibson. 

So I have the connection between Scotland and the US, but Colin Gibson(a tailor) must have done SOMETHING in Kirktown before getting on the Ship to cross the pond.

Janet is the mystery - Don't know what happened to her..  and only spotty information on Colin Gibson What did he do after leaving the boat?

Would like to know if there are any relatives left in Scotland. 
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 28 August 22 01:28 BST (UK)
I paid for a Genealogist that got me a picture of register entry for Colin Gibson  (old Parish Registers Births and Baptisms) 4 August 1754 - I have to believe that this would show me the same record.   
Is the 'picture' you received in typed form or hand written i.e. is the 'picture' of the indexed entry or of the hand written register entry?

There's a huge difference between both i.e. the hand written version is the important one as mentioned previously by Forfarian.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Sunday 28 August 22 16:49 BST (UK)
Very much hand written (and transcribed). 

Moving on to other information quests.  More information on the family life of Collin Gibson , before the boat crossing, what happened to the boat? What happened to Janet? Any relatives - left in Scotland with maybe more "Family" information? What about over here in the USA, very spotty information on Colin Gibson, but quite a lot of information on his son Matthew Gibson and his decedents.  Colin seems to be the "hole".

Any help would be welcome - Thank you.

Dean
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 28 August 22 23:41 BST (UK)
Very much hand written (and transcribed). 
I'm asking about the image you were sent...
"Colin Gibson  (old Parish Registers Births and Baptisms) 4 August 1754"

Is the image of the actual register entry or from the index as your reply is not clear  ???

If it's the actual register entry, can you please transcribe exactly what it says or post the image here so we can see what we can glean from it to help further?

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Tuesday 06 September 22 19:43 BST (UK)
I'll try the attachment(s) again:

Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Tuesday 06 September 22 19:47 BST (UK)
Sorry .... Even that didn't get the whole thing ....  Take 2;

Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 07 September 22 02:21 BST (UK)
See image below of indexed entries I posted at Reply #2

If this was my tree, my next step would be to look at (firstly), the image of the baptism of John Gibson 1764 as it's the only one with mms then I'd want to look at the others...

If the occupation of Tailor for father John is the same it will add a bit of weight to Mary McNaught being the mother & if the place of residence, Kirktown is the same, it adds a bit more weight.

I found 'Kirktown' (in full) was Kirktown of Neilston in the Parish of Neilston & Roberton

This may be for John (1764)...

Gibson John 14/4/1830
residing at Eastfield, parish of Niston and Roberton
Inventory
Glasgow Sheriff Court Inventories
SC36/48/22

However, I'm not convinced there's enough evidence as to Colin being the son of 'a' John let alone John Gibson & Mary McNaught...

What info. do you have apart from the baptism found as to who the father of Colin was, what info. do you have giving an age &/or place of birth for him?

Sorry to sound negative but I'm concerned there's a lot of info. here with no 'proof' e.g. the g & g g/parents of Colin, can you tell us where that info. came from please & the only baptism of 'a' Colin in the index for the period in question is the one you were given by the researcher.

I think finding docs. with his age at least would be helpful e.g. his Military Records.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 07 September 22 02:58 BST (UK)
From Reply #5...

"Military Service:   "Albany, New York, USA"   
FamilySearch ID:   MWXL-PGD"

Can you post the FS link please (I can't find it)

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 07 September 22 03:06 BST (UK)
I have the connection between Scotland and the US, but Colin Gibson(a tailor) must have done SOMETHING in Kirktown before getting on the Ship to cross the pond.

Janet is the mystery - Don't know what happened to her..  and only spotty information on Colin Gibson What did he do after leaving the boat?

Would like to know if there are any relatives left in Scotland.

I'm confused...Colin was 'a tailor', where did you find the info. as it would make sense he was a Tailor when he left Scotland, following in the footsteps of his father if John was indeed his father.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Wednesday 07 September 22 17:54 BST (UK)
From Reply #5...

"Military Service:   "Albany, New York, USA"   
FamilySearch ID:   MWXL-PGD"

Can you post the FS link please (I can't find it)

Annie

Here is what I found From Family Search (not much information ..):

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1GX-76F : 11 February 2020), Colin Gibson, 1754.

Citations Attached
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Wednesday 07 September 22 18:00 BST (UK)
As for John Gibson :  Here is all I can seem to dig up.  Showing him as father of Colin Gibson.

MRZQ-1C9
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Wednesday 07 September 22 18:46 BST (UK)
my researchers conducted a statistical analysis of the OPR looking for christenings of babies named Colin Gibson (including variant spellings) - between 1730 and 1760.  They found only 2.   The first was christened in 1760 to late to be the target Colin Gibson.  The second 4 Aug 1754 was what I showed you.

They then searched for Families  with children born 1700 - 1780 and restricted to Englesham Parish. they found 2 Gibson families one John Gibson and the other Thomas Gibson.  Both were tailors. Thomas had a son named John and John's son was named Colin.  The research they did put Thomas to be about the right age to be Colin's grandfather.

John Gibson and Mary McNaught were both from the same parish of  Englesham  were married 19 Feb 1753 in  Englesham .

Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Wednesday 07 September 22 18:54 BST (UK)
I want to cite my researchers: Legacy Tree - Genealogists and Project Manager Suzanne Earnshaw. 
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 07 September 22 22:02 BST (UK)
Here is what I found From Family Search (not much information ..)
That is merely an index entry pointing at the handwritten original already posted. The original is pretty uninformative so it's not surprising that the index listing is similar.
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Thursday 08 September 22 15:09 BST (UK)
From Reply #5...

"Military Service:   "Albany, New York, USA"   
FamilySearch ID:   MWXL-PGD"

Can you post the FS link please (I can't find it)

Annie

Posted what I found on "MWXL-PGD" above for "Rosinish" Annie - as I said Not much information.
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 09 September 22 04:46 BST (UK)
In order to try & make some headway in your research, have you read my Reply #23?

Much can often be gained from baptisms although not always but, if you don't 'bite the bullet', you'll never know & always wonder.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 09 September 22 10:12 BST (UK)
my researchers conducted a statistical analysis of the OPR looking for christenings of babies named Colin Gibson (including variant spellings) - between 1730 and 1760.  They found only 2.   The first was christened in 1760 to late to be the target Colin Gibson.  The second 4 Aug 1754 was what I showed you.
Did they give you any estimate of thne probability of there being a third (or more) Colin Gibson(s) whose baptism record(s) have not survived?
Title: Re: Looking for connections in Scotland
Post by: DFG on Saturday 10 September 22 16:39 BST (UK)
my researchers conducted a statistical analysis of the OPR looking for christenings of babies named Colin Gibson (including variant spellings) - between 1730 and 1760.  They found only 2.   The first was christened in 1760 to late to be the target Colin Gibson.  The second 4 Aug 1754 was what I showed you.
Did they give you any estimate of thne probability of there being a third (or more) Colin Gibson(s) whose baptism record(s) have not survived?

The indication I got from them is that the paper trail they examined had been exhausted, and I think their conclusion(s) are likely to be right.  I'm trying to see if there may be more out there in the  way of new information? 

It just boggles my mind that the information is so sparse, and I can't seem to get sub 1600 (which is where I thought would be a good stopping point (1600 that is). 

Also boggling to me are the questions I have been trying also to trace:

1) What happened to Janet?

2) What happened to the ship (Brig) "Commerce" after the landing in New York in 1774, and a picture of the ship - I think it was used in the war, but I can not confirm.

3) I find it hard to believe that the whole Gibson family, that Colin Gibson came from, shows so little documentation in Scotland (and in the US for that matter).  DNA test didn't help with anyone in the UK, and very little in the us.   

When we were in Paisley, there seemed to be Gibson's all over.  Maybe the name "Gibson" is like the name "Smith" here?  I feel deep in my being that there must be someone in the Paisley, Renfrewshire area that I'm related to.  Just where are they?