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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: InvisiblesRus on Saturday 14 December 19 22:34 GMT (UK)

Title: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Saturday 14 December 19 22:34 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,
Does anyone know what I C a R might mean in a military (infantry) record?
Thanks
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 14 December 19 22:38 GMT (UK)
It may be more easily and correctly found if you could post a clip of the record to show the context in which it occurs.  Alternatively, if the record is on line, post the name/number if you wish.

MaxD
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Sunday 15 December 19 09:35 GMT (UK)
Screen shot...
Thanks
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 15 December 19 09:46 GMT (UK)
Need a bit more!  The first element is 1st and the column is for who he is serving with so we have a unit called 1st C A R.

What is the date associated with that line?

MaxD
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: davidgp on Sunday 15 December 19 10:45 GMT (UK)
The small annotation next to the word discharged suggests at some time he was in the 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) which became the South Staffordshire Regiment in 1881 - may give you an 'in' to the meaning of C.A.R.
David
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 15 December 19 11:13 GMT (UK)
Yes I'd had the same thought and checked out the 80th Foot and successors without anything emerging.

I'd be far happier to see the whole record - helps to check other letters to ensure we are looking at the right initials and locations/dates are a great help too - its a bit like having a blindfold on!

MaxD
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: philipsearching on Sunday 15 December 19 12:22 GMT (UK)
The small annotation next to the word discharged suggests at some time he was in the 80th Regiment of Foot (Staffordshire Volunteers) which became the South Staffordshire Regiment in 1881 - may give you an 'in' to the meaning of C.A.R.
David

I think this refers to the person in line above and so might be a red herring.  In the last column shown, the line above has A G List 78, the relevant line has A G List 86.

Max is right - we need more information.  A name, rank, and regiment/corps would be helpful.

Philip
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Sunday 15 December 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
Shrewd spot Philip.  This is almost certainly not one individual's record but a medal award list. I should have listed medal awards in my earlier pointer to what helps interpret a record!

See:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1686/31794_221410-00115?pid=1706273&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DdVB1447%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1686%26gsln%3Dbrown%26cp%3D4%26qh%3D/WTtBGnOrRQSvncG4BtGzQ%253D%253D%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D2%26h%3D1706273%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D3&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dVB1447&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 for an example with very much the same headings.

Max
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Monday 16 December 19 08:43 GMT (UK)
Got it (subject to seeing the man's name and cross checking)

1st (British) Central African (or Africa) Rifles - slight variations of name are to be found.  A predecessor regiment of the King's African Rifles.  Officered by seconded British officers, in Mauritius in 1899, at least one other battalion as 2nd CAR is mentioned in a newspaper report of 1899.  Many LG entries for officers seconded.

Hope we are allowed to se the name and date!!

MaxD



Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Monday 16 December 19 22:23 GMT (UK)
Hello Gents - and thanks!
I am trying to find out what happened to my 2x Gt Grandfather (William) Charles Salter. He was a Private in the Rifle Brigade from 1871. He served in Ireland (where he married) and was imprisoned in Winchester for desertion in early 1876 (my Gt Grandmother was supposedly born in June of that year in Manchester. The record is for a Private Charles Salter ref South African Campaign - medal roll, as suggested. I haven’t posted the whole image because Rootschat says it’s too large and I have no means of reducing it apart from cropping.
By 1891 Charles was dead. My assumption is that he died in service, but I cannot find out where he OR his family were between 1876 and 1891 (actually do not have any knowledge of his wife Mary Carroll or daughter Mary Ellen’s whereabouts until 1891 - not even a birth registration).
I really don’t know whether this record COULD be Charles or not. I am looking for possibilities.
Margaret
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 17 December 19 07:04 GMT (UK)
It seems likely that he was 2057 Private Charles Salter who served with the Rifle Brigade in the third Ashanti War (1873-1874). His entry on the medal roll is marked "deserted".

Added: The 1876 prison record confirms his army number:

Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Tuesday 17 December 19 09:03 GMT (UK)
Thank you, Shaun.
I did get someone to research for me at the Rifle Brigade museum, but I didn’t get THAT information!
They did reckon that he would’ve rejoined his regiment (although I think they were in Gibraltar when he was released, so they weren’t too sure what would’ve happened).
I don’t have military record access, which makes things harder... as does the fact that he married in Ireland (although his marriage registration DID survive - Church of Ireland).
I really appreciate your assistance
Margaret
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 17 December 19 09:20 GMT (UK)
You might want to consider a visit to the National Archives to track his army career through the Rifle Brigade muster books and paylists. 

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_p=1800&_q=rifle+brigade+muster+%222nd+battalion%22

He's not in Gibraltar's database of military deaths http://www.nationalarchives.gi/gna/MilitaryDeaths_1869-1914.aspx
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 17 December 19 09:29 GMT (UK)
Just to tidy up a loose end. 

The clip you posted at the beginning is from the medal roll for the 80th Foot in the South Africa 1877-1879 campaign with the particular entry being for 1889 Charles Salter of that regiment.

ShaunJ has almost certainly found the right one!

MaxD
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Tuesday 17 December 19 11:34 GMT (UK)
Already had someone check records at TNA for me. It turned up NOTHING....  :(
Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 17 December 19 11:43 GMT (UK)
Did they check through the muster books and paylists? He will be listed there until he died or left the army.

Title: Re: Abbreviation 1880s military record
Post by: InvisiblesRus on Tuesday 17 December 19 14:40 GMT (UK)
They couldn’t find any CONCLUSION... I was left with no more intel!