RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Silverhawk on Saturday 14 December 19 06:17 GMT (UK)
-
I have an 1859 death certificate which says the burial place was "Churchyard of Hawick". Would this have been St Mary's at St Mary's Place, or the Old Parish Church on Buccleuch Street?
-
Have you checked Free Reg to see it has details of the burial?
-
I don't know Hawick at all well, but like every other Scottish town it rejoices in an over-supply of church buildings, not all still in ecclesiastical use.
http://www.scottishchurches.org.uk/sites/places/region/Borders/parish/Hawick
From the old map only St Mary's is surrounded by a kirkyard.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=55.4208&lon=-2.7932&layers=6&right=BingHyb
Photographs show St Mary's built on a motte surrounded by open space.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=107135504
This shows, I think, the other non-RC church shown on the map on Buccleuch Street.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5117183 . No evidence of a kirkyard. I believe that this is the so-called Old Parish Kirk, built 1844 and now in use as a hall.
The map also shows a Roman Catholic church on Buccleuch Street
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2849396 . Also built 1844.
There also Teviot Church, just off Buccleuch Street
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5956952 but it wan't built until half a century later.
Nor did this one on the other side of the river
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6289805 .
So unless corrected by someone who knows better, it looks as if it must have been St Mary's.
-
Have you checked Free Reg to see it has details of the burial?
Yes. Unfortunately FreeReg doesn't have any Hawick transcripts yet.
I don't know Hawick at all well, but like every other Scottish town it rejoices in an over-supply of church buildings, not all still in ecclesiastical use.
http://www.scottishchurches.org.uk/sites/places/region/Borders/parish/Hawick
From the old map only St Mary's is surrounded by a kirkyard.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=55.4208&lon=-2.7932&layers=6&right=BingHyb
Photographs show St Mary's built on a motte surrounded by open space.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=107135504
This shows, I think, the other non-RC church shown on the map on Buccleuch Street.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5117183 . No evidence of a kirkyard. I believe that this is the so-called Old Parish Kirk, built 1844 and now in use as a hall.
The map also shows a Roman Catholic church on Buccleuch Street
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2849396 . Also built 1844.
There also Teviot Church, just off Buccleuch Street
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5956952 but it wan't built until half a century later.
Nor did this one on the other side of the river
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6289805 .
So unless corrected by someone who knows better, it looks as if it must have been St Mary's.
Thanks again, Forfarian :) You're a font of knowledge.
-
I’m from Hawick and have Hawick ancestry.
At this time I expect it would be the Wellogate cemetery.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2182436/wellogate-cemetery
See also my GENUKI Hawick page at https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ROX/Hawick#Cemeteries
-
A bit more info about Wellogate cemetery, including a much more accurate map than on the FindAGrave website:
https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/directory_record/12009/hawick_wellogate_cemetery
-
I’m from Hawick and have Hawick ancestry.
At this time I expect it would be the Wellogate cemetery.
Even though the certificate says 'Churchyard'?
-
I’m from Hawick and have Hawick ancestry.
At this time I expect it would be the Wellogate cemetery.
Even though the certificate says 'Churchyard'?
Yes I think so. St Mary’s is tiny, and would likely be full by then.
-
Just a quick follow up. St Mary’s closed for burials in 1864, apparently, so was nearly full in 1859. So it was still a possibility, but I’d honestly expect Wellogate to be more likely.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2485691/saint-mary's-kirk
-
Just a quick follow up. St Mary’s closed for burials in 1864, apparently, so was nearly full in 1859. So it was still a possibility, but I’d honestly expect Wellogate to be more likely.
Is there any way you could check? The name of the person in question is William Bowie. He died 9th January 1859.
-
Out of curiosity I looked at the page on SP with his death. William Bowie was buried in 'Churchyard of Hawick'. The next two people on the same page of the register were buried in 'New Burial Ground of Hawick'. See attached extract. (I'd post the whole page but that would fall foul of the copyright rules.)
-
Just a quick follow up. St Mary’s closed for burials in 1864, apparently, so was nearly full in 1859. So it was still a possibility, but I’d honestly expect Wellogate to be more likely.
Is there any way you could check? The name of the person in question is William Bowie. He died 9th January 1859.
Yes, assuming this is your man, here is his grave entry in FindAGrave, using the St Mary's link I gave earlier in the thread.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/205449656/william-bowie
Click on the link to see the details. Does that look like your man? If so definitely St Mary's is it is, and @Forfarian's images suggest so too.
-
I never trust Find a Grave entries without a stone especially those made today.
I also suggest you download www.astro.ubc.ca it is a book about Hawick it is huge over 3,000 pages and has a few pages on the Bowie's.
Don
-
I never trust Find a Grave entries without a stone especially those made today.
Good point re the date, well spotted.
The St Mary’s inscriptions have been transcribed, and published in the Hawick Archaeological Society Transactions in the years running up to 1940. Sadly I can’t get over to St Andrews at the moment to check the copies of the transactions in the university library there. But they are recorded.
-
Yes, assuming this is your man, here is his grave entry in FindAGrave, using the St Mary's link I gave earlier in the thread.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/205449656/william-bowie
Click on the link to see the details. Does that look like your man? If so definitely St Mary's is it is, and @Forfarian's images suggest so too.
;D The above was me. I added it acting on Forfarian's response. Can change the place if it's confirmed it was elsewhere. I usually add Findagrave entries if I can find a relative's interment mentioned in the press (BMD announcements, articles, etc) or a church's burial register. I took the the column on the Scotland's People death certificate to be as good as, being a government source.
I also suggest you download www.astro.ubc.ca it is a book about Hawick it is huge over 3,000 pages and has a few pages on the Bowie's.
Astronomy and Astrophysics at the University of British Columbia.... am I missing something? I can't see anything relating to Hawick on that page.
-
Astronomy and Astrophysics at the University of British Columbia.... am I missing something? I can't see anything relating to Hawick on that page.
Use this link:
http://www.astro.ubc.ca/people/scott/book.pdf
It's a superb resource for people with Hawick connections. Compiled by Hawick man Douglas Scott, Prof of Astronomy.
It won't help answer your specific question, but it may be of interest nevertheless.
-
Silverhawk
It may help in Wellogate
"(1) WilLiam was hapt. 1st Ml:ty, 1786, in presence of Henry Nichilson and John:"
".Bowie and d. 13th May, 1861, eged 75. Marr . . (1st) 28th Deer., 181""4, by Dr Di{)kson. to·"
"Jame, dang. .of Peter Fisher, merchant, G1a.sgow, d. 11th April, 1844, >aged 50, issue-(a)"
"·william, (b1 Peter Fisher, (c) Jessie, d. 2n€! Novr., 1841, aged 8, (d) Daniel, commerciaL"
"traveller, built Hopehill, intending to be II!Illlrried, _but d. l.lnmarr. lQth Jeny., 1864, >aged."
"29, (e) Thomas, two mru:r. dil.ugs.-(f) Mrs Dyer, (g) Mrs McGinly, &nd 4 d. in infancy."
No Bowie in St Marys or Wilton with a headstone only the one above.
-
Use this link:
http://www.astro.ubc.ca/people/scott/book.pdf
It's a superb resource for people with Hawick connections. Compiled by Hawick man Douglas Scott, Prof of Astronomy.
It won't help answer your specific question, but it may be of interest nevertheless.
Thanks, Viv :) A lot of info there. It mentions at the end of William's writeup that he's buried in St Mary's. Refers to my great(x4)-grandmother too, Margaret who married William Kennedy. And the Boa spelling (for a good while I was looking for Boas instead of Bowies). If I'd had this way back when, I could've saved myself some frustration. All good stuff though :)
Silverhawk
It may help in Wellogate
"(1) WilLiam was hapt. 1st Ml:ty, 1786, in presence of Henry Nichilson and John:"
".Bowie and d. 13th May, 1861, eged 75. Marr . . (1st) 28th Deer., 181""4, by Dr Di{)kson. to·"
"Jame, dang. .of Peter Fisher, merchant, G1a.sgow, d. 11th April, 1844, >aged 50, issue-(a)"
"·william, (b1 Peter Fisher, (c) Jessie, d. 2n€! Novr., 1841, aged 8, (d) Daniel, commerciaL"
"traveller, built Hopehill, intending to be II!Illlrried, _but d. l.lnmarr. lQth Jeny., 1864, >aged."
"29, (e) Thomas, two mru:r. dil.ugs.-(f) Mrs Dyer, (g) Mrs McGinly, &nd 4 d. in infancy."
No Bowie in St Marys or Wilton with a headstone only the one above.
I... have no idea what I'm looking at here :-[
-
I... have no idea what I'm looking at here :-[
It looks like an extract from something that has been read by optical character recognition and just quoted unedited.
-
Thanks, Viv :) A lot of info there. It mentions at the end of William's writeup that he's buried in St Mary's. Refers to my great(x4)-grandmother too, Margaret who married William Kennedy. And the Boa spelling (for a good while I was looking for Boas instead of Bowies). If I'd had this way back when, I could've saved myself some frustration. All good stuff though :)
Excellent! I hadn’t looked at the entry, and didn’t think it would list a burial place. Excellent result! And glad there is extra info in there for you.
-
Siverhawk...I just went through my 3 copies of M.I. for...St.Mary's, Wellogate and Wilton and sorry to say there was not one Bowie listed.
Now that is not to say he was not buried in any of them...just that there is no stone recorded.
Hope to hear back from you re my private message about 5 of your research names.
Cheers for now