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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 10:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 10:37 GMT (UK)
If someone has been married 3 times but never divorced his 1st wife are the other 2. Marriages legal.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: medpat on Thursday 12 December 19 10:41 GMT (UK)
If the 1st wife is still alive when other marriages take place and there's no divorce or annulment then the other marriages are bigamous and not legal.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: Craclyn on Thursday 12 December 19 11:08 GMT (UK)
What time period were these events? Bigamy was more common than you might expect because it was very difficult to obtain a divorce.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 11:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you for answering 1st marriage 1939 no divorce 2nd marriage 1948 divorce 3rd marriage 1958
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: dowdstree on Thursday 12 December 19 11:40 GMT (UK)
Bigamy is a criminal offence and if caught the offender can be sentenced to a term in jail.

Dorrie
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 12 December 19 12:33 GMT (UK)
Was 1st wife deceased when he married wife no. 3, it would be legal then?

Annie
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: Craclyn on Thursday 12 December 19 12:35 GMT (UK)
How do you know he did not actually divorce the first two?
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 13:39 GMT (UK)
His  1st wife was alive at the time of the other 2 marriages.
I know all this Ashe was my uncle and all 4 people are dead by 1980
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 13:43 GMT (UK)
He was my uncle all 4 are now dead.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 12 December 19 14:25 GMT (UK)
What marital status was given when he married in 1948.  Where have you checked that there was no divorce from his first wife
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 12 December 19 14:31 GMT (UK)
According to The National Archives, less that 0.2% of divorce case files after 1937 have survived.

1858 - 1927 - almost 100% have survived
1928 - 1937 - almost 80% have survived

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: Blue70 on Thursday 12 December 19 18:28 GMT (UK)
I have one of these in my tree it was confirmed by the results of a search request. I had to apply for a search of the divorce records over a ten year period. Always best to check the divorce records as people can give false information. The marriage certificate in the second marriage in our case stated that the bride was divorced but the divorce records showed that no divorce had taken place.


Blue
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Thursday 12 December 19 18:52 GMT (UK)
He was my fathers brother he married in his stepfathers surname 1st marriage  and his real name for the 2nd and 3rd marriages he was down as bachelor and 3rd marriage as divorced.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: zetlander on Thursday 12 December 19 20:11 GMT (UK)
you're assuming the first wife was single when she married.  If she wasn't single then the first marriage was not valid.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: Blue70 on Thursday 12 December 19 21:45 GMT (UK)
A useful link for requesting a divorce search and obtaining a copy of a decree absolute or final order if a divorce is found:-

https://www.gov.uk/copy-decree-absolute-final-order


Blue
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 December 19 22:38 GMT (UK)
If someone has been married 3 times but never divorced his 1st wife are the other 2. Marriages legal.
He was my fathers brother he married in his stepfathers surname 1st marriage  and his real name for the 2nd and 3rd marriages he was down as bachelor and 3rd marriage as divorced.
Thank you for answering 1st marriage 1939 no divorce 2nd marriage 1948 divorce 3rd marriage 1958

Hi there,

I am sure you would have checked and that you are certain your Uncle was married three times.  So may I ask some questions for you to ponder over in perhaps a reflective way.

 :) Do you have the marriage certificates for each of those three?

You mention the first marriage was using his step-father’s surname. 

 :) Are you sure that that’s actually your Uncle, and not someone else by that name?  Have you considered checking further, eg with freebmd indexes or similar…  If it is definitely your uncle, then perhaps as others have mentioned you need to consider if the bride was free to marry … 

You mention the second marriage was using his real name and he was noted there as a bachelor.  If the first marriage was not valid, or if the first marriage was not your uncle, then this second marriage was actually his first, so he would have been a bachelor at that time.

 :) Have you considered contacting the witnesses to gently ask them for any background knowledge of his marital status?

Also, I am sure that using a step surname does NOT invalidate a marriage; and that a person can be known by any name they choose at that time, provided they are not attempting to deceive or be a fraud etc… So whether they use a step name, or a birth surname, or any other name should not affect the validity of a marriage.  A name change does not need to be formalised, but a deed poll does change a name immediately rather than by the less formal way of 'by usage'. 

Likely there were children of all three marriages, and likely many of them are still living.   They may well be aware of the circumstances of their respective set of parents, and there may well be sensitive issues. 

 :) These people are your first cousins, so have you considered speaking with any them?   


JM

Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: avotier on Friday 13 December 19 06:43 GMT (UK)
Have got the certificates and even went to the 2nd and 3rd weddings
Also got paperwork re divorces.
One divorce found  2nd marriage none for 1st .
3rd died while married.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 16 December 19 14:32 GMT (UK)
From work experience, many people got as far as getting a decree nisi but never went back to court six weeks later to make the decree absolute.

Records of decrees nisi are not kept.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 16 December 19 14:41 GMT (UK)
I assume divorces in England & Wales are similar to mine from the Isle of Man?

In which case there is a fee to be paid for a Decree Absolute (or Final Order as it is called here!).
Perhaps someone didn't want to pay the fee ::)

In my case (from 12 months ago) the fee was £27 to make the Provisional Order (eg Decree Nisi) a Final Order.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: RJ_Paton on Monday 16 December 19 17:55 GMT (UK)
Despite the name change IF the second marriage was bigamous to go through the procedure of a divorce was decidedly  risky

The information and talk that would generally circulate about these matters would have stood a good chance of reaching wife No 1 who could have reported the matter to the police and thus his arrest. As said by others, at that time period a prison sentence was the normal outcome of any proceedings (if found guilty).

Given that he could afford financially to go through the Divorce proceedings against wife no 2 there is no evidence (so far) that he did not do the same with Wife No 1.

Absence of evidence is not proof to support a presumption of bigamy.
Title: Re: Divorce
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 16 December 19 18:45 GMT (UK)
I know of a case where a jail sentence was handed out in the mid 1960's.

Dorrie