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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Brewins girl on Tuesday 10 December 19 13:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Tuesday 10 December 19 13:36 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this is the right place to post this question as it's a bit off-piste, but here goes. I have found these two photographs in a little photo album belonging to my late great aunt b 1894 or possibly my grandmother b 1887, so both adults during WW1. One is of Admiral Jellicoe, the other of Lord Kitchener. Both have been cut to fit into a circular picture frame, diameter around 7cm. The photographs are fairly common, appearing in newspapers and magazines at the time, but I'm puzzled as to how she acquired actual photographs, and why she might have had them on display. Any theories (backed up by evidence if possible) greatfully received.

PS It was disappointing to realised that neither of them were family members!
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 10 December 19 13:51 GMT (UK)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SHIPPING-ADMIRAL-Sir-JOHN-R-JELLICOE-1914-Real-Photograph-Postcard/293075653698

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOUR-EARLY-POSTCARDS-BRITISH-ARMY-COMMANDERS-c-1900-KITCHENER-ROBERTS-BOER/202842223457?hash=item2f3a56b361:g:7IwAAOSwvMBd54DD

Postcards??  Why on display - heroes of the time.

MaxD
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Tuesday 10 December 19 15:53 GMT (UK)
Thank you yet again MaxD. My husband said he thought they were postcards not photos shortly after I'd posted my question. Being so young (???!!!) it hadn't occurred to me to think more laterally and to put myself into the 1914++ frame of mind! Neither Kitchener nor Jellicoe had unblemished records - reminds me of one or two current prominent figures whose misdemeanours or indiscretions can be overlooked by some, who nevertheless view them as heroes of our time!

I hadn't known that Kitchener originated the term 'concentration camps' - when he imprisoned women and children farmers in Africa during the dreadful Boer War. You learn something new every day!
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Jebber on Tuesday 10 December 19 17:37 GMT (UK)
Perhaps members of the family served under them, it was not unusual to keep souvenirs of famous people in such circumstances. Sometimes they named their children after well known military figures, or even famous battles.

  I have a booklet about Lord Roberts, my grandfather having served under him. After  my grandfather’s death in 1916, my grandmother kept the booklet, together with a letter to my grandfather from Lord Roberts.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Tuesday 10 December 19 17:40 GMT (UK)
What a wonderful piece of history you have Jebber. I'd love to think there was a similar story in the case of my photos/postcards, but I rather think there's a more mundane explanation.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: MaxD on Tuesday 10 December 19 19:21 GMT (UK)
Two random thoughts prompted by the above.

The MaxD residence is on a corner plot and the road at the front has our address .  The road that runs to the side however that has our driveway entrance is Kitchener Road.

Like I suspect many fathers, mine had the odd annoying habit when I was young.  When asked if he had something or other, his stock reply was "No but I've got a picture of Lord Roberts and a threepenny bit".

 :D
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: philipsearching on Wednesday 11 December 19 15:22 GMT (UK)
Two random thoughts prompted by the above.

The MaxD residence is on a corner plot and the road at the front has our address .  The road that runs to the side however that has our driveway entrance is Kitchener Road.

Like I suspect many fathers, mine had the odd annoying habit when I was young.  When asked if he had something or other, his stock reply was "No but I've got a picture of Lord Roberts and a threepenny bit".

 :D

And another random thought:

It is interesting to see how many children were given the names of heroes of the time (particularly military) or battles in late Victorian and Edwardian days.
For example - births Jun qtr 1900: 37 named Mafeking (on FreeBMD)
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 11 December 19 16:47 GMT (UK)
At least you knew who they were and didn't claim them as Family....some years ago, someone posted a photo of her "Grt.Grt.Grandmother" asking for a date of when it would most likely have been taken. It was a Carte de Visite of a Queen Victoria, when this was explained to her, the lady was adamant that it was a photo of her relative otherwise why would she have it in her album?? A little Googling provided the answer ;D ;D ;D
Carol 
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Wednesday 11 December 19 17:28 GMT (UK)
That made me laugh Carol. I think the question "why would someone have a photo (of Queen Vic) in her album" is similar to my question about why my aunt or grandmother would frame photos of Kitchener and Jellicoe, for which MaxD offered an explanation - "heroes of the time". I pity future genealogists trying to make sense of 'selfies' with celebrities!

I love your father's response to the question did he have something or other MaxD - I am NOT going to tell my husband!

Now, as to children being given the names of heroes & places (as in Mefeking) is that better than being named after an advert for Reckitt's bath cubes? Yes,  that was me. I have even found said advert  :'(
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: XXX on Saturday 21 December 19 00:33 GMT (UK)
My great great uncle (Ernest Riley) went down on the HMS Hampshire along with Lord Kitchener after the ship struck a mine off the Orkneys. 737 men, including Kitchener, were lost altogether. Only 12 crew survived. I don't know if the cards were some sort of commemoration.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Saturday 21 December 19 10:19 GMT (UK)
That’s an interesting idea Sudoo.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 21 December 19 10:58 GMT (UK)
The postcard manufacturers would certainly have made special efforts with cards when the men died - vide:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POSTCARD-MILITARY-LORD-KITCHENER-IN-MEMORIUM-1916/233403537773?hash=item3657ef596d:g:GIsAAOSwMkldoYzd  (not my spelling!)

although such cards had been being produced over a number of years once the men rose to prominence.

MaxD
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Saturday 21 December 19 18:51 GMT (UK)
thank you MaxD - I've found both of the postcards on Ebay and although I've got originals (cut out to fit a photo frame by my grandmother or grt aunt) I decided to obtain unadulterated ones! I'll post an update when they arrived when they might possibly help to date them. It'll be interesting to see if they are indeed 'in memorium' cards
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Skoosh on Sunday 22 December 19 08:09 GMT (UK)
A programme about this a couple of weeks ago. A local farmer went over the cliff on a rope & rescued some sailors who were put to bed, there were more men at the cliff bottom but his rescue attempts were stopped by the navy & the men perished. Big question, why?

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Sunday 22 December 19 09:35 GMT (UK)
I don’t understand how the programme you described links to postcards of Kitchener or Jellicoe?
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: XXX on Sunday 22 December 19 20:09 GMT (UK)
Mine was a poor idea having looked up a little on Admiral Jellicoe - he didn't sail with Kitchener and survived WW1.

I imagine Skoosh was following a train of thought in the way I was from the mention of Kitchener though it may not directly answer your original query. To go back to that it has always surprised me how much (often undeserved) deference was shown to those high up in society by those at the bottom in those days. I suppose they were the celebrities of their day. Very sadly their games didn't end in somebody being evicted from a house rather in the cost of millions of lives.
Title: Re: Photos of Admiral Jellicoe and Lord Kitchener
Post by: Brewins girl on Sunday 22 December 19 20:19 GMT (UK)
Plus ça change!