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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Offaly (Kings) => Topic started by: imison on Saturday 20 August 05 01:11 BST (UK)
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I am looking for Irish relatives but without much luck so far.
BIGLEY
NEWTON
ANDERSON
O'CONNOR
the only connection is that they all married into English families
Thank you
IMISON
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Looked anywhere ?
http://www.failteromhat.com
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm
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Well I have found them in England but only in the censuses.
So I know that they originated from Ireland but not a clue whereabouts. However, one person today suggested that Arthur G Bigley might well have come from Belfast.
I am not very clued-up on how to search for people, and would welcome advice on how to go about the research.
I am most grateful for the help that this board has been - I have found more people in 24 hours here than I had before in 2 years by myself.
Thank you
IMISON
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Have you dates for these families ?
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Arabella IMISON married Arthur G Bigley
They had a son called CECIL Bigley who was 6 at the time of the 1901 census.
I know little more of Arthur Bigley other than the census records IRELAND.
However TANJA found extra information which led her to wonder if he may have come from BELFAST.
TANJA told me of an Arthur Br igley RATHER THAN BIGLEY, however the other particulars chime in as he married ARABELLA who had been born in Runcorn and it was the only Arabella apparently born in Runcorn. QED?
That being the case Arthur B[r]igley HEAD was 37 and a clerk who was born in Ireland adn his wife was 33 who had been born in Runcorn Cheshire.
ANNE E HANDLEY was Arthur's STEPGRANDMOTHER who was widowed, aged 80 who ad been born in OLD BROMPTON [KENT?]
JAMES ANDERSON was born in IRELAND according to 1881 census in LICHFIELD where he was living at 3 Militia Stores. He was a CHELSEA PENSIONER
His rank was Staff Sergt 1st KOS Militia Chelsea Pensioner 11th Regt of Foot
He was 49, so his approximate year of birth was 1831/1832 I suppose, which makes it impossible for me to check it through the 1837 register doesn't it?
I know that he was married to HANNAH but do not know anything about her other than she was 39 and was born in LICHFIELD.
Their children living in 1881 were Constance Ann aged 12; William James aged 10; George Aaron aged 8; James aged 7; John Henry aged 4; Albert Edward aged 1.
They apparently had some more children too, but their first child, a girl, had died. I think their may have been 8 or 9 sons altogether?
Constance Ann was born in Cape Colony/ Cape of Good Hope Grahams Town but her brothers were born in England.
I am very grateful to TANJA for her help in finding this extra information and I hope it will help you to locate them too.
The NEWTON to whom I refer is WILLIAM TUNSTALL NEWTON and there seems to have been an Irish connection there?
Also I found that one of the Imison/Cunningham family seems to have married an O'CONNOR [from TRIM I believe] Ireland.
Unfortunately that is as far as I can go.
Thank you very much for your help
IMISON
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;D ;D ;D
1891 Census
RG12/2831
18 Halton Road
Runcorn
Cheshire
Arthur G B(R)IGLEY/Head/37/Clerk/Belfast, Ireland
Arabella B(R)IGLEY/Wife/33/Runcorn, Cheshire
Anne E HANDLEY/Step Grandparent/80/Living on own means/Old Brompton, Kent
Ellizabeth HELSTON/Servant/18/Halton, Cheshire
I think this kinda proves that Arthur came from Belfast Immison !
;D ;D
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;D ;D
I cannot find the marriage of Arthur & Arabella anywhere ??? ??? ??? but have found the birth of:-
Cecil Gore BRIGLEY
in 1894 in Toxteth Park, Lancashire
December Quarter 8b 227
Also found the marriage of
Amelia Thisbe IMISON
and William Tunstall NEWTON
in 1891 in Runcorn, Cheshire
September Quarter 8a 371
:D :D
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Thank you very much Mobo. I now need to find out how to get the Belfast details. Where do I find them please? Thank you very much.
IMISON
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:D :D :D
1901 Census
RG133440
35 Ferndale ? Road
Toxteth Park
Liverpool
Lancashire
Arthur G BIGLEY/Head/47/Clerk/Ireland
Arabella BIGLEY/Wife/43/Runcorn, Ches
Cecil G BIGLEY/Son/6/Liverpool, Lancs
Amelia T NEWTON/Sis-in-law/Wid/35/Living on own means/Runcorn, Ches.
Eric NEWTON/Nephew/8/Peover, Ches.
Maud TOMLINSON/Servant/18/Runcorn, Ches
:D :D
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Dear Mobo
Thank you very much for finding both the birth certificate for CECIL GORE BIGLEY - I wonder if that means that Arthur Bigley's mother's maiden name was 'Gore' as I note with interest the number of people in the Imison family who have included the mother's maiden name as the middle name of their offspring.
Furthermore, someone pointed out that it was unusual to have a STEPGRANDMOTHER listed, albeit it an elderly widow, living with them. I had not heard of her before, had you?
Also, thank you very much for finding the MARRIAGE certificate for the family.
I am most grateful.
Maybe I can return the compliment and look out anything for you?
Best wishes
IMISON
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Imison, it seems that Arthur Brigley was already in England in 1881.
Just type in his name and you will see him with his family in Staffordshire.
The 1881 census is free to search at www.ancestry.co.uk or www.familysearch.org
Tanja :)
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Dear Tanja
I would like to thank you very much for all the help you have given me. I shall indeed check the said census returns.
Is there anything I can look up for you by way of return? I cannot promise anything but I'll keep a look-out.
Best wishes
IMISON
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And this is them in 1871
Uttoxeter, Staffordshire
Stone Road
Simon Brigley, head, 48, Upholsterer
Charlotte, wife, 47
Arthur, son, 17, Clerk & warehouseman
Emily Pauline, dau, 12, scholar
Everybody born plain 'Ireland', unfortunately.
RG10/2892 Folio 103 p. 24
Tanja :)
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Dear Christopher
Thank you very much for your advice. I will check your leads. I am most grateful.
If there is anything I can look out for you please let me know - I can't promise anything but I will keep an eye out.
Best wishes
IMISON
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Dear Tanja
I think you may have hit the jackpot here - as my family was often referring to UTTOXETER - well of course they would be if their family lived there!
Thank you so much. So it looks as though the family name really was BRIGLEY rather than BIGLEY so the plot thickens!
At that time the stepgrandmother was not living with the family I note. So I wonder if she was Arthur's or Arabella's 'stepgrandmother'.
Please let me know what you are looking for so that I may do some research for you too.
Best wishes
IMISON
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:D :D
Cecil's name was shown as BRIGLEY in the records
and
1881 Census
RG11/2749
High Street
Uttoxeter
Staffs
Simon P BRIGLEY/Head/58/Upholsterer/Ireland
Charlotte BRIGLEY/Wife/56/Ireland
Arthur G BRIGLEY/Son/27Clerk/Ireland
Emma BRIGLEY/Dau/22/Ireland
Bertha MARSHALL?/Granddau?/11/Manchester
So now you know Arthurs birth year, his parent's names, and most important of all WHERE HE WAS BORN IN IRELAND. You can post a look up query on the IRELAND GENERAL board. I'm sure sombody will come to your aid...................
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Dear Mobo
Thank you so much for all this wonderful information. Uttoxeter has often been mentioned by the family so now I know why!
Please let me know what I can research for you by way of return.
Best wishes
IMISON
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Dear Christopher
I used the url
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm
and placed BRIGLEY in the search box. It came back with NO returns. However when I placed BIGLEY in the search box it came back with several names and soundex.
I am now totally confused - which of the enumerators/registrars was correct in putting BIGLEY or BRIGLEY or were there indeed 2 Arabellas from Runcorn one of whom married Bigley and the other Brigley?
The mystery deepens!
Thank you again
IMISON
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Imison,
I think it must be BRigley. Remember the birth Mobo found for Cecil, and you found him with the family pout down as Bigley. Moreover, Bigley appears only once, whereas you now have Brigley on birth references and on 3 census returns.
Tanja :)
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Dear Tanja
I think that you are right.
I also have read that Irish names are not always spelled the same way in their registers, as they can use the Erse form rather than English. I do not speak Erse.
So are there any other ways to investigate that you have found?
I am most grateful to you for your help
Best wishes
IMISON
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As Mobo suggested, I think it's on the Ireland board you will get the best help. I suggest you post the details of the census returns found so far there.
Tanja :)
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Dear Tanja and Mobo
You have been most kind - I will put together something and put it on the Ireland board as you suggest.
As you have given me more information I will do some research with those leads and see what extra information I can find.
I was wondering about the birth of BERTHA MARSHALL who was 11 in the census and the fact that she was born in MANCHESTER. Where would I go to find her birth certificate please? Thank you so much.
IMISON
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:D :D Bertha MARSHALL?/Granddau?/11/Manchester
So now you know Arthurs birth year, his parent's names, and most important of all WHERE HE WAS BORN IN IRELAND. You can post a look up query on the IRELAND GENERAL board. I'm sure sombody will come to your aid...................
Imison, As I placed a query against MARSHALL and Granddau, I would put this on the back-burner for now if I were you and just concentrate on asking someone to find the birth of Arthur G BRIGLEY circa 1854 in Belfast to parents Simon BRIGLEY & Charlotte. The more simple you keep the request the sooner you will get a reply !!
;D ;D ;D
:D :D
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I have continued with the search using the new leads that everyone has given me.
The plot thickens
EMMA BRIGLEY in 1881 was aged 21 and governess living with her parents in High Street Uttoxeter
However, in 1871 when she was 11, she was with her parents in STONE ROAD UTTOXETER and her name was down as EMILY PAULINE BRIGLEY [note, the absent 'Emma']
But in 1891, when she was 31, still a governess, she was living with her father [noted as MARRIED BUT NO SIGN OF WIFE] in HIGH STREET UTTOXETER as they were in 1881.
All references show here as being born in Ireland, as with her father, Simon, who was UPHOLSTERER even at the age of 68 in 1891.
I have not found reference yet in 1901.
As to the granddaughter, she seems to have taken up a position as SERVANT in GLANFORD BRIGG Lincolnshire, District 13, in 1891, where her birthplace is recorded as MANCHESTER.
One further thing, I wonder if Arthur G Brigley's second name is GORE, as his son was christened CECIL GORE BRIGLEY?
Does anyone know if the family appeared in the 1861 census at all?
I feel that I am getting closer in some areas, but not in others.
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP
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I couldn't find them in 1861 in England.
As for Emily and Emma, there are one and the same name.
Tanja :)
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Dear Tanja
Thank you very much for searching. No, I could not see anything either.
I agree with you that the EMILY/EMMA is one and the same person.
Thank you for your help. Is there anything you are looking for yourself?
Best wishes
IMISON
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This should be Simon's death:
June quarter 1896
Brigley, Simon Payne
Deaths
Age 74
Uttoxeter
Volume 6b page 199
Tanja :)
And Charlotte's?
BRIGLEY, Charlotte Maria
Deaths March 1883
Uttoxeter
Age 59
Volume 6b page 249
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In Pigot's 1820 Commercial Diary, there seems to be an entry for a Simon Brigley, Engraver/Copper plate Printer at 39 Clarendon street in Dublin (!). Perhaps related?
Tanja :)
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Dear Tanja
You are a master-sleuth and no mistake!
I had not considered DUBLIN but of course it is possible.
I shall certainly consider that one.
Best wishes
IMISON
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Emma is Emma Hall in 1901, living in Uttoxeter (marriage in December 1891)
Tanja :)
Still plain 'Ireland' as birth place
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Dear Tanja
How did you do it?!!!
AMAZING.
Thank you so much.
So she waited some while to grieve for her father before marrying at what would then have been considered something of an 'old maid'. I don't suppose you know of any children? Who married her: does it give Mr Hall's first name?
Again A BIG THANK YOU for all your research
IMISON
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I'm back in 1871, which suggests the Dublin connection again:
RG10/3975
Folio 109 p. 16
Ardwick St Thomas, Lancashire
14 Green Place
Margaret Prince, head, wid, 58, seamstress, b. Yorkshire Doncaster
Sarah Ann Prince, dau, unm, 23, Chemical works, b. Manchester
Ellen Ann Prince, dau, unm, 20, Servant, b. Manchester
Charlotte Marshall, lodger, married, 24, Dressmaker, b. Ireland Dublin
Bertha Marshall, (lodger's) dau, 1, b. (not clear whether it's Dublin or Manchester that is dittoed).
Tanja :)
This Charlotte always gives her birthplace as Dublin through the censuses. Also, when a widow, guess what? She's an upholsteress!
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RG13/2633
Folio 54 p. 46
Uttoxeter, Staffordshire
Carter Street
John Payne Hall, head, 55, Seed & (?) merchant, employer, b. Uttoxeter
Emma Pauline, wife, 41, b. Ireland
Kathleen M, dau, 7, b. Uttoxeter
Evelyn B, dau, 5, b. Uttoxeter
Mabel G, dau, 3, b. Uttoxeter
Elizabeth Johnson, servant, 21, General servant domestic, b. Uttoxeter
In case you need the reference for the marriage, you can look it up at www.freebmd.org.uk or www.ancestry.co.uk
Tanja :)
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Also just found this:
Marriages Liverpool December 1866
Brigly, Charlotte
8b 517
Spouse either Patrick Greenan or HENRY MARSHALL :D
Tanja :)
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Ah, so it is useful to look for variations of the name then.
BRIGLY without the 'e' but certainly NOT Bigly or Bigley
However, with so many BRIGLEY references, it would seem much more likely to be BRIGLEY and that the others are misspellings.
THANK YOU TANJA - YOU ARE BRILLIANT
IMISON
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Hello
Just an update of what I found regarding the Irish ancestors.
CHARLOTTE MARSHALL of DUBLIN seems to have 2 birth years as her age changes yet she seems to be one and the same person. WEIRD.
In 1871 she was a married woman, with a !-year old baby daughter, BRENDA MARSHALL.
They were residing in ARDWICK.
The child is also enumerated as having been born in DUBLIN like her mother.
The FATHER is absent although a JOSEPH MARSHALL appears in 1881, by which time there is a SON too.
The son was not born in Ireland, but in LANCASHIRE. His name is either SYDNEY or SIDNEY MARSHALL [depending on which census you read].
The girl, their daughter [?], BERTHA MARSHALL, is now 11 and residing [though maybe temporarily - we cannot tell] with her grandparents SIMON PAYNE BRIGLEY, an upholsterer, and his wife CHARLOTTE BRIGLEY.
This is 95% accurate but with guesstimate thrown in as suddenly she drops 2 years in age in 1891 by which time she is shown alone with her teenage son, who is now working in a warehouse. His mother is an upholsterer.
In 1901 she is described as head of household but she is alone. Upholsteress. Again her age is 2 years younger than in 1881, 1871, would have us suppose.
Does anyone have any information on these points? In 1901 it just says she hails from IRELAND, although the earlier ones specify DUBLIN.
Also, BRENDA MARSHALL was born in DUBLIN about 1870 according to the census in 1871 but in 1881 it says MANCHESTER.
Maybe there were 2 Brenda Marshalls, and maybe we are barking up the wrong genealogical tree, but the evidence to support the theory is somewhat compelling as CHARLOTTE MARSHALL's own father SIMON PAYNE BRIGLEY was an upholsterer. In 1871 she was a dressmaker. Could she have developed her skills perhaps? By 1901 it included carpets as well as upholstery. according to the description in the census.
Well, that is as far as I have travelled with the help of everyone on the boards.
So I must thank you all and wish you well on your own journeys. Should you be able to help throw any light at all on ANY of the family as well as their friends and relations please let me know.
Thank you again
IMISON
PS Arthur Brigley was the putative nephew of Charlotte Marshall and the putative uncle of Brenda Marshall.
[although he was shown somewhere as BIGLEY, this is now shown not to be likely, and that their had been a spelling error]
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Arthur Gore Brigley married Arabella Imison 1/6/1887, Amelia Thisbe Imison was a witness. They had 2 children. I’ve got Arthur’s army records and some extracts from The Runcorn Guardian c1890 of John Birchwood Imison’s death and funeral, including mourners, bearers, tributes etc. (Mr W Newton attended if that’s of interest). Arthur was a Reverend at this time. I’ve also got a few lines about a rogue pinching some trousers from Mary’s (Johns wife) pawnbroker shop.
This all ties in with the 1901 Census. Did you have any luck tracing beyond Simon 1820?
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Dear Brigly
Thank you SO MUCH for this information.
Yes, it would be very interesting indeed for me and my cousin to have the information you have in your possession.
The Mr Newton would no doubt be the father of ERIC Newton who was a cousin of my grandmother.
Thank you very much
IMISON
Brigly
RootsChat Pioneer
Online
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: IRISH FAMILY SEARCH WITHOUT ANY CLUES
« Reply #36 on: Today at 22:17:05 »
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Arthur Gore Brigley married Arabella Imison 1/6/1887, Amelia Thisbe Imison was a witness. They had 2 children. I’ve got Arthur’s army records and some extracts from The Runcorn Guardian c1890 of John Birchwood Imison’s death and funeral, including mourners, bearers, tributes etc. (Mr W Newton attended if that’s of interest). Arthur was a Reverend at this time. I’ve also got a few lines about a rogue pinching some trousers from Mary’s (Johns wife) pawnbroker shop.
This all ties in with the 1901 Census. Did you have any luck tracing beyond Simon 1820?
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Good afternoon everyone. My name is William Victor Brigley, son of William Henry Brigley, and Grandson of Joseph George Patrick Brigley. My family is of the Brigley's that remained in Queensland, Nova Scotia, Canada. Throughout the archive of the Canadian/USA Brigley's, they can be traced back to a place called Black Point, Nova Scotia. This location is right next to Queensland, about 5 minutes away from where I grew up. I have begun a facebook group called Global Brigley Family Reunion. So far we have several Brigley families all adding their history to a mass family tree making this the most accurate Brigley family tree to date. We too are trying to make the connection back to Ireland as I have an archive that begins with a John Brigley, and the England one I have also begins with a John Brigley, however they are 27 yrs apart. This family contains Bigley's, but we cannot make the final connection. If you could join facebook and let me add you to this group we can work together to add what history you have to what we have. It would be most appreciated and benefit us all. Thank you.