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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: dblun on Wednesday 27 November 19 23:07 GMT (UK)

Title: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: dblun on Wednesday 27 November 19 23:07 GMT (UK)
Grandmother residing 7 Sewark/Newark St (?). Greenock 1890. Which street might it have been? She was a Domestic Servant. Were there big houses on these streets where she might have been employed and lived? Anyone able to enlighten me?
Thanks loads
Dot
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 27 November 19 23:34 GMT (UK)
Quote
Grandmother residing 7 Sewark/Newark St (?). Greenock 1890

Whose household was she living in and what was the occupation of the head of household?  Are you referring to the 1891 census or something else as you mention 1890

Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 27 November 19 23:52 GMT (UK)
From the VRs (Valuation Rolls) 1885 & 1895 likely Newark Street as there's no Sewark Street.

What doc. has the info. & worth checking if there's a no. above the address (street name)?

Annie
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: dblun on Thursday 28 November 19 00:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks Annie
My original reading led me to Sewark… eyes checked ..Ha Ha.. must be Newark. The number is 7..so off to the valuation rolls I go .. then a look at te history of the area.
Dot
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: dblun on Thursday 28 November 19 00:52 GMT (UK)
I am reading from her marriage license ..  address given   no name of household.. just the street.. 1891 census may have the house family listed..  I am trying to put some flesh on skeletons
Thanks
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 28 November 19 01:19 GMT (UK)
1885 & 1895 have Proprietor/Occupier Robert Grieve, does that fit?

Annie

Add...Only Tenants/Proprietors/Occupiers are recorded i.e. if Lodging she won't be recorded
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 28 November 19 09:15 GMT (UK)
Grandmother residing 7 Sewark/Newark St (?). Greenock 1890. Which street might it have been?
Newark. There is a Newark Castle http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=106030984 not far away at Port Glasgow, and Sewark does not occur in https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: kathleenmitchell on Thursday 28 November 19 13:08 GMT (UK)
Hi, it will be Newark St, it is still there and has a lot of the original houses still, classed as the West End of Greenock, the posh end, my ancestors came from the East End of the town - poor end. Lol
 Try google earth to see the houses.
Kathy
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: dblun on Friday 29 November 19 18:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone...
Great info and a busy weekend ahead.
Dot
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Sunday 01 December 19 12:45 GMT (UK)
hi
   the robert grieve at newark st was a sugar refiner
and had some sort of partnership with abram lyle
of tate and lyle,
he was also involved with some home for friendless boys,
there was a few grieves in the sugar industry in greenock
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Sunday 01 December 19 13:01 GMT (UK)
Robert Grieve's property at 7 Newark St was called Glenholm. Members of the Grieve family were partners, with Abram Lyle, in the Glebe sugarhouse in Ker St from 1865 to beyond 1911, though Lyle had moved his refining interests to Silvertown in Essex by 1881.
The Glebe refinery was closed down in 1952, but, as far as I know, still stands -  https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3677283
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Sunday 01 December 19 13:48 GMT (UK)
hi
  it is still standing,
the last known use of the building i m aware of
is that it was used by customs as a bond for contraband,
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Sunday 01 December 19 16:06 GMT (UK)
Thank you, raonull4, that's good to hear.  So only two of the old UK refineries still standing, the other is in Lewins Mead, Bristol, now masquerading as the Hotel du Vin.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Thursday 19 December 19 18:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Sugarbaker
                   i meant to post this while back
its what remains of the glebe
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Thursday 19 December 19 18:38 GMT (UK)
Thank you, raonull4 ... good to see it's still there.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Thursday 19 December 19 18:46 GMT (UK)
this picture is of sugar bonds James Watt Docks
where the sugar landed before being shipped
to the refineries,
as far as i m aware these are
the last remnants of the sugar industry in Greenock.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Thursday 19 December 19 18:49 GMT (UK)
forgot pic sorry
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Thursday 19 December 19 19:03 GMT (UK)
Yes, thanks again, raonull4
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Thursday 19 December 19 19:15 GMT (UK)
hi again
         just had a nosey on your data base and see you ve noted a few lafferty's
of mine ie William USA
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Thursday 19 December 19 22:08 GMT (UK)
Yes, 1871-1901 ... interesting.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Thursday 19 December 19 23:19 GMT (UK)
hi
   i ve been digging in to my info Robert Holmes 14 east shaw street
worked in the glebe,
as did William Lafferty and his son Neil,
my connection to both these names
is Martha Maxwell Holmes daughter of Robert
married Francis Lafferty son of William
brother of Neil,
this being my direct line of grand parents
on my mothers side
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Friday 20 December 19 20:47 GMT (UK)
Thank you, raonull4, useful info.

Are any of them on the Glebe picture at top of Portraits page
www.mawer.clara.net/portraits.html
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Friday 20 December 19 22:18 GMT (UK)
wish there was
i m amazed with how much you ve gathered
from census's a lot of work gone into it,
i remember the gantries crossing the road
comming down at the westburn,
I also removed the last of the foundations
from walkers, to make way
for william lows supermarket.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Friday 20 December 19 22:34 GMT (UK)
perhaps you can answer this for me
on how the westburn got its name
when walkers was actually built on top of the
west burn which runs from inverkip st under walkers
and into the clyde
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 21 December 19 00:56 GMT (UK)
Would West not be the direction the burn runs from?

Annie
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Saturday 21 December 19 09:05 GMT (UK)
Hi
   no the reason i  asking this is the westburn refinnery was built
in upper greenock nowere near  the west burn.
which runs from Inverkip rd, then was culverted from Inverkip st
and under Walkers refinnery  then through the town centre
into the clyde
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Saturday 21 December 19 10:31 GMT (UK)
Westburn Sugar Refineries Ltd appears to have been a company name initially and nothing to do with location. It purchased Berryyards Refinery at the top of Lynedoch St in 1896, though the refinery had been built in 1852 for partners Anderson, Orr, Scott and Paul who ran it to 1864 when it became wholly owned by the Scott family. This refinery was known as Brewer's Sugar and Westburn over time, becoming part of Tate & Lyle to it's closure in 1997.

The book to read about the founding/closures/owners of Greenock refineries is 'Notes on the Sugar Industry' by John M Hutcheson, 1901. There is the odd original copy about, and it's available on Abebooks as a Print-on-Demand copy, but is also online at  http://www.ainslie.org.uk/genealogy/sugar/index.htm  . A very good read, and the first book I bought when I started my research.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Saturday 21 December 19 11:53 GMT (UK)
hi
  are you ready for my theory on why it was called
the westburn,
if i m correct abram lyles father had a cooperage
on Nicholson st greenock and employed 30 or so
abram himself is listed as a cooper,
and has the familly living on Nicholson st on early census,
the west burn runs between Nicholson st and Inverkip st,
so he probably played in the burn as a kid,
i hope you are nt laughing
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Saturday 21 December 19 12:51 GMT (UK)
this map may support my theory
it shows lyles cooperage in front of walkers
and behind the west burn,
walkers eventually expanded over the burn,
in 1850  therewas an extensive fire at the cooperage
i cant find anything to say it survived the fire.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: sugarbakers on Sunday 22 December 19 18:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you for that great map (1857), so much detail, and online too.
https://maps.nls.uk/townplans/greenock.html

Interesting theory ... but Lyles moved out of sugar in Greenock in 1880/1 with their move to London (they continued in shipping).
Westburn Refineries Ltd was founded in 1894/6 by the Kerr family, with whom Lyle had been in partnership at the Glebe until 1880.
Lyle merged with Tate in 1921 to form T&L.
T&L bought the Walker refinery in 1929 and closed it in 1979.
Westburn, was not purchased by T&L until 1976 when it bought out Manbre & Garton, who had owned it since 1965.
Title: Re: Sewark/Newark St? Greenock
Post by: raonull4 on Sunday 22 December 19 21:31 GMT (UK)
hi
    i did say don t laugh though i did find it
very interesting that lyle had that connection to
the Nicholson st and the west burn
because i was born on Nicholson st.