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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Carbostar on Tuesday 26 November 19 10:35 GMT (UK)
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Not sure if this is possible ?, I've eventually trace a Hugh McGregor shoemaker to 51 high street (1935 post office directory) Glasgow, and from the wedding certificate I have, a Hugh McGregor shoemaker barony parish is likely the same person , is it possible to find the other residents at number 51 high street Glasgow for the same period ?.
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When was the marriage you mention and who to?
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@ Carbostar, maybe the Glasgow Valuation Rolls at the Mitchell, some dates apparently better than others though?
Skoosh.
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If you're going to the Mitchell Library, the Registers of Electors would be better, as they include everyone registered to vote, whereas the Valuation Rolls only list heads of households.
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CarolW
The marriage certificate is for his son Duncan McGregor's marriage to Rebecca Dennis (17 /12/1856 ) present are father Hugh McGregor shoemaker Barony Parrish, witnesses Eugene fisher & John N Young .
The marriage was in Hartlepool, Durham,
I have a pretty good account of the family tree after the marriage, sons and daughters of Duncan & Rebecca and the family's after that, but prior to the migration from Glasgow to the NE England I have very little,
For instance did Hugh leave Glasgow at the same time as His son Duncan ?, I found an entry for a Hugh McGregor committing a crime of larceny in 1856 in Hartlepool and him getting a three month sentence, I was tempted to follow the transportation route as there was a Hugh McGregor transported to Australia about the same time, but I dont think its the same Hugh ?.
No mothers name no sisters or brothers, so the entry of Hugh McGregor shoemaker in the Glasgow postal directory for 1835 ( Duncan was born 1834 ) was a fairly good clue to follow, if I could locate Duncan to No 51 aged 1year that would be brilliant, but I have a feeling that I have a long way to go,
Thanks for your reply and interest most appreciated.
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Skoosh / Forfarian
Im not aware of the Mitchell library ? But it sounds good, how do I access that ?
I have quite a bit information about the McGregors once they arrived in the NE of England about the time Duncan was in his 20's but no information at all prior to that, and only a brief mention of his father the shoemaker from Glasgow Hugh McGregor.
Thank you both for your interest and information Im sure it will lead me further down the road.
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Carbostar, the Mitchell contact is,
www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell
Another possible source is the Glasgow Trades House, each of the 14 trades had their histories published, I have most of these but not, unfortunately, the "Cordiners", (shoemakers). This book will list the members of the guild & a maybe even a possible pedigree as sons generally followed their faither. You might try contacting them & ask if there were any "Children of the Mist!" listed. The Mitchell might be worth trying if they appear in the burgess rolls, as to join one of the crafts requires the applicant purchasing a burgess's ticket first.
https://www.tradeshouse.org.uk/crafts-cordiners/
Skoosh.
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Im not aware of the Mitchell library ? But it sounds good, how do I access that ?
https://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/venues/the-mitchell-library (not to be confused with https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/contact-us/mitchell-library, of course).
But in the light of your later postings the date, 1935, in your first post, is clearly a typing error, so there is no point in trying the 1935 valuation rolls or the registers of electors.
Not that there would ever have been any chance of finding a young child in any trade directory, valuation roll or register of electors on any date.
Have you looked for Duncan in the 1841 and/or 1851 census?
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I see that in 1861 Duncan was aged 26, an iron ship builder, born Burnparish (I assume Barony). I also see from the GRO index that the children were Salena Catherine 1857, Sarah 1859, Abel 1861, Duncan 1864, Daniel 1867, Rebecca 1869, Emma 1873, and Agnes 1878. No Hugh, so they were obviously not following the Scottish naming tradition.
In the 1881 census there is also a 4-year-old daughter Jane, but the only birth of a Jane McGregor in Sunderland in 1875-1877 is to a mother with surname Hunt. I note with passing interest that in 1871 Duncan's household includes William Hunt, 19, brother and Emma, 15, Martha, 14 and Eliza, 12, Hunt, sisters, all born Hartlepool.
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A quick look at the Hammermen index, several MacGregors, a Duncan MacGregor (stranger, just means father not a member) nautical instrument maker, is recorded joining Oct 2 1878.
Skoosh.
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Yes I have most of the children listed from Duncan & Rebecca, including the Hunt anomaly, I left that bit hanging for the time being as I wanted to concentrate on this Hugh McGregor, theres always a chance its not his real Father ?, as you mention the continuity of the christian name, as Ive noticed within the family think Im about the fourth or fifth to be named Duncan.
Im sort of looking for more evidence on Hugh at the same time looking for the birth of Duncan ?.
Thank you for sharing you knowledge and experience, its most appreciated .
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Thanks for your valuable information its most appreciated
A little bit of back ground , I believe Hugh's son ? Duncan McGregor (1834) arrived in the North East of England around about the 1850's to gain work in the shipyards, as all the census records mention him working as a shipyard worker, working as its not until Duncan's marriage to Rebecca Dennis is there a mention of hugh the shoemaker as being his father
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Ah yes sorry about that a typing error it should have been 1834 so sorry oops.
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Hmmm. FS has a note of a family in the 1861 census in Hartlepool consisting of Ann Hunt, 38; William Hunt, 9; Hannah Hunt, 7; Dorothe Hunt, 5; Eliza Hunt, 3; Emma Hunt, 5.
The GRO has births of Mary Ann Hunt in 1847 in Sedgfield, William Hunt in 1851, Hannah Hunt in 1852, Emma Hunt in 1855 and Martha Hunt in 1857, all with mother's surname Dennis or Dinnis or Dinnes or similar.
In 1841 there's a family with John Dennis, 50; Hannah Dennis, 50, John Dennis, 30, Matthew Dennis, 15; Ann Dennis, 20; Rebecca Dennis, 3.
So is Rebecca the illegitimate daughter of Ann Dennis, who married John Hunt in 1845? If so, it demolishes my idea that maybe the Hunt siblings were Duncan's half siblings on his mother's side, his father having died.
Back to the drawing board, I think.
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Forfarian that's how I understood it that Rebecca was illegitimate , I also have that Duncan died in 1887, so I'm not sure what went on there other than she must have remarried, you would think it would make things a bit easier having his birth and year he died, I have been sent a whole raft of Information on " Hugh" so I'm going to have a look at that !
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Forfarian that's how I understood it that Rebecca was illegitimate , I also have that Duncan died in 1887, so I'm not sure what went on there other than she must have remarried
Why do you think Rebecca remarried? She's in the 1891 census as Rebecca McGregor and there's a death of a Rebecca McGregor in Sunderland in 1895. Age is a couple of years out, but the chances are that it's her.
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Ah yes sorry about that a typing error it should have been 1834 so sorry oops.
You have time to edit & correct it within 24 hrs (for future ref)
Annie
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There is a couple who feature is someone else's family research, a Hugh McGregor and a Catherine Blair.
They look to have married in 1817. This tree quotes:
Scotland OPR Marriages 564/01 0040 0380 Greenock New or Middle; Hugh McGregor is a shoemaker
I can see two children for them in the OPRs:
A Mary born in 1826 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1SR-9QH also
A Peter born in 1829 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X175-J61
The tree is connected to a descendent of Mary's. She married a Peter Boyle in Glasgow in 1844 and died in the Glasgow area in 1902.
All these events would be easy enough to veryfy on Scotlands People.
I cannot find them in 1841...but maybe something to follow through to check?
Monica
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I did wonder when I saw that Duncan's eldest daughter was named Catherine
According to SP Hugh McGregor and Catherine Blair had
Agnes, baptised 18 May 1817, Greenock
Daniel, baptised 10 January 1819, Greenock
Mary, baptised 12 November 1826, Gorbals
Peter, baptised 1 February 1929, Barony ("her 7th child")
Hugh, baptised 30 June 1834, Mearns
There's a family in the 1841 census in Mearns: Agnes McGregor, 20; Euphemie McGregor, 18; Sarah McGregor, 15; Mary McGregor, 14; Peter McGregor, 12; Duncan McGregor, 10, Hugh McGregor, 8. Agnes, Euphemie and Hugh born in Renfrewshire; the rest elsewhere in Scotland.
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A Peter MacGregor, engineer & brass-founder, was admitted as a stranger into the Glasgow Hammermen on April 24th, 1851, burgess ticket March 21st. His age would about fit!
Skoosh.
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A Peter MacGregor, engineer & brass-founder, was admitted as a stranger into the Glasgow Hammermen on April 24th, 1851, burgess ticket March 21st. His age would about fit!
Very inconveniently, there is a 22-year-old Peter McGregor, blacksmith, born Glasgow, son of James and Isabella McGregor, at 19 Kelvin Street in 1851, when the census date fell on 30 March.
And a 21-year-old Peter McGregor, mechanic, born Scotland, in Manchester in 1851. (Though it's a really bad image and the age could be 31 not 21; and Peter son of Hugh and Catherine would have turned 22 no later than 1 February 1851.)
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Other MacGregor Hammermen,
31 Aug 1810, John MacGregor, blacksmith, stranger, ticket Aug 20, essay horse-shoe & nails.
30 Aug 1833, John MacGregor, blacksmith, stranger, ticket Apr 23, essay screw-bolt, nut & washer.
25 Aug 1837, John MacGregor, blacksmith/farrier, stranger, ticket 19 Aug, screw-bolt, nut & washer.
11 Mar 1868, John MacGregor, shipbuilder, son, ticket 10 Mar.
07 Oct 1873, David MacGregor, calico printer, stranger, ticket Aug 29.
Skoosh.
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A possibility for the Peter we have discussed, son of Hugh and Catherine.
There is a RC marriage in Liverpool parish register for a Peter McG to a Helen Ward on 15 December 1861.Can't easily make out his father's name (could be RC version of Hugh?) and mother Catherine.
This couple show back in Govan Lanarkshire by 1863 and the birth of children.
They had a number of children, including a Catherine Blair McGregor in 1871 (may have died young).
1871 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBPP-VZX
1881 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMJK-NJ4
1891 - www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSXN-VFZ
Helen Ward McGregor I think from the SP index died at the age of 58 in 1897 in Govan Lanarksire.
A few possibilities for Peter for death entry including one in Govan in 1898.
Monica
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Anent MacGregor! it's been a while but here is the online copy of the history of the Glasgow Cordiners Guild,
https://archive.org/details/historyofincorpo00camp
Bests,
Skoosh
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Hi. I'm a descendant of Duncan McGregor and Rebecca Dennis and have come up against the same issues trying to find Hugh.
Hopefully I'll be able to provide some input, as my Grandfather researched the family tree long before the internet and obtained all sorts of documents allowing him to get back 250 years (so I've been told).
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Welcome to RootsChat, StewMc :)
Carbostar will get an email message that you have posted here and hopefully post back.
Monica
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Thanks! Do I need to make a few posts before I can use the Private Messages?
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Yes but the member will be notified of your reply as you have replied to their topic.
Regards
Sarah
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StewMc Thank you for your input I would be interesting to see the information you have accumulated, I think the Period between Duncan leaving Scotland and arriving in the NE England then the marridge to Rebecca interesting in its self, I have a few interesting events in the family history, but I expect they are a lot more,
Hope to hear from you soon.
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I'm hoping to review everything over the next few weeks, once I can access the family tree put together by my Grandfather.
I'm running with a few theories, but hopefully will be able to fill in the blanks!
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Hi,
I am yet another descendent of Duncan and Rebecca who had drawn a blank with shoemaker Hugh, so I too would be interested in any further research please.
The birth certificate of Rebecca (b 7/11/1837) shows only one parent, Ann Dennis. On 5 November 1845 we have the marriage of Ann Dennis to James Hunt. Ann's father is shown as John Dennis, a mason and John Hunt's father is William Hunt, a sailor.
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I have had another dig into this today. I started with what I think is a red herring in an article on a Hugh (1802-1876) who was deported to Australia in 1840 for stealing a sheep and then have his wife help him to try to escape from prison. He was a shoemaker but was from Achahorn so, although interesting, geographically it seems unlikely. The below trial papers also relate to a Hugh who was a "journeyman shoemaker" (which may be the same person):
High Court of Justiciary Trial Papers
Title Trial papers relating to Hugh McGregor
Name Hugh McGregor
Role Accused
Crime Theft by housebreaking, and prison-breaking
Trial Date 24 April 1839
Trial Location Perth
Verdict Guilty
Verdict Comments Guilty in terms of own confession - theft by housebreaking.
Sentence Transportation - 7 years
NRS Reference JC26/1839/27
Notes The Advocate Depute passed from the remaining charges.
The 1861 census for Monkswearmouth (Sunderland) shows Duncan's birthplace as what reads like "Barnparish Scotland". It has been suggested that this may be Barony which seems possible.
There is a Hugh McGregor born in Barony on 1 May 1803. His parents were John and Christina nee Kirk.
There is a marriage between Hugh McG and Isobel Cunningham at Barony in August 1818. If this is the same Hugh he would only have been 15, but Scottish law may have allowed that at that time.
Hugh and Isobel then went on to have children, Isobel (1819), Alexander (1821), possibly Agnes (1823) and Hugh (1824). I still can't see the birth of Duncan recorded which would have been 10 years later, but still possible. I'm not at all sure if I'm going down the right track here so am interested in how the others who are interested are fairing.
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There is a Hugh McGregor born in Barony on 1 May 1803. His parents were John and Christina nee Kirk.
There is a marriage between Hugh McG and Isobel Cunningham at Barony in August 1818. If this is the same Hugh he would only have been 15, but Scottish law may have allowed that at that time..
A boy could legally marry at 14, but it was exceptionally rare for this to happen. Unless he was from a very wealthy family, a 15-year-old boy would never have been able to support a wife and family. Most men had to wait until they were established in their trade or profession and earning enough before they could consider getting married.
Also, if his parents were John and Christina, you'd expect his to name children after them.