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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: deeerdre on Tuesday 26 November 19 02:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Can anybody help to figure out what's written in this little message?
Thank you.
Deirdre
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Luke sent word lost
The Belle Ben..........
An initial - Rickard
Is the Belle .... a ship?
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I have no idea. Thank you.
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I can’t offer much more than Mckha, except that the letter after t looks like it might be a u. Possibly last letters “ury”?
First letter looks like B but may be P? :-\
N or M Rickard.
Are there any other clues you can provide in case it helps?
Where did the note come from?
Is there anything written on the other side of the piece of paper?
Was anything else with the paper?
In which country in the world was the note found?
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Actually, if it's the Luke I think he is, he had nothing to do with ships. He was a famine relief officer in Ireland and later a post office master in Kildalkey-Athboy area in County Meath, Ireland.
Deirdre
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I'd say his brother, Mathias, wrote the note.
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The plot thickens. :)
Any idea of dates?
So M Rickard is Mathias?
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Sorry, found in Ireland, County Meath. The brothers lived in the 19th century. Nothing on back of note.
Deirdre
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Yes - he was an attendant and later head attendant in many lunatic asylums in Ireland between the 1840s til the early 1880s (Carlow, Wexford, Dublin and ended up in Killarney).
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1801 to 1899 is a long time. ;D
I think “Belle something” sounds like a ship as Mckha suggested. I am trying to think of a possible time when this person may have written this note and what it might relate to. War time/a conflict came to mind as a reason that a ship may have been lost (but of course that may not be the case).
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A word I considered previously was ”Penitentiary” bit I didn’t think it quite fits with the letters in the note, nor do I know if it is a word which would have been used. Does it fit with Belle. I don’t know.
Might it fit with your ancestor’s occupation? Not sure. :)
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Yes Ruskie, I agree. If it's the right Luke, he was a famine relief officer around the time of and after the famine. Perhaps he travelled on a ship before that... Why would he send word to say he lost a ship???
Thanks,
Deirdre
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I have a subscription with Britishnewspaper archives. I'll try a few things with "Belle ......". Thanks a million.
Deirdre
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I tried a couple of google searches but they turned nothing up. You might have better luck with the newspapers.
I hope you solve it. :)
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Thanks very much, Ruskie. I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Have a good day.
Deirdre
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Yes, please let me know how you get on. :)
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Hi again,
No luck on news archives with a ship "Belle ....". However, you came up with the word "penitentiary" - I tried it out preceded by "Bill" as in act, law, etc. and a few "penitentiary" associated with "bill" came up in the 1842-1844 period as regards the Penal Laws Repeal Bill. Could it be "bill penitentiary"??? Strange order of words, though...
Deirdre
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looking at the note again, it doesn't look like "penitentiary".
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Hello.
Had a look through Lloyds Shipping lists 1840 to 1890 and saw no likely starters.
Belle - (something) really only became common in the latter period, with many being the Belle of .... the port she traded from.
Still trying to work out what the capital letter is, for the second word.
Alan.
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Hello Alan,
Just wondering if the second word could be Benturon and then another short word...
Thanks for your help.
Deirdre
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Must admit I was looking for a word ending in a 'g' or 'y'
Could be Benturon though that capital B does not appear to have been formed with similar pen strokes, to the 'B' of Belle.
Anyway if you think it may be a ship, looking up the Lloyds Shipping list is relatively simple exercise. I just Googled, to get to the correct www site.
Anyway gone the midnight hour, here down under, so must to bed. Happy hunting.
Alan.
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Thanks very much Alan and sleep well.
Deirdre
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Any better?
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For what its worth. I do not think it is the name of a ship or has any maritime connection.
A list of vessels whose name starts with "Belle"
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsalpha?shipsearch=belle&SearchType=Starts&submit=search
Lloyds Register is not the best reference to search. Try the Mercantile Navy Lists.
http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/mercantile-navy-list.html
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First Girl Guide - Thank you - it's much clearer.
Also, Seaweed, initially, I wanted to steer clear of ships (pardon the pun) as the family never associated him with ships. Thanks for those links.
Deirdre
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Hi,
The "W" in "Word" is so ornate, it makes me wonder whether we really are looking at "Belle", or something completely different. I can't help but think that someone who writes such a "W" would have a much fancier "B"...
The more I look, the more I see something like "13M". Which makes even less sense... ::)
Best regards,
Karen
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None the wiser trying to work out his pen stroke hand. What capital letter do you form that way, or is it not a capital? Even wondered about an "A" with a flourish, but look where the pen stroke started.
Do you have examples of Mathias RICKARD's hand writing, to compare his writing style with?
Alan.
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Agree that this may not relate to a ship, however because your family had no naval connections does not mean they may not have mentioned the loss of a ship. ;)
Also agree the word is not penitentiary but despite only a couple of illegible letters (which the eye/brain often can fill in the “gaps”), I can’t make any sense of it.
Added: looking at the word cleaned up, I wonder if the first letter could be a D? :-\
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I did wonder if it was the number "13" followed by something. Here is another example of his handwriting.
Deirdre
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D of Drawers in that second piece is quite distinct.
So mystery letter not a D
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The last extract of his hand-writing I posted was written a few months before his death - he was 84 then - could his handwriting have changed over the years?...
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I did wonder if it was the number "13" followed by something. Here is another example of his handwriting.
Deirdre
Hmmm. Looks like an early SMS - no full stops or commas! ;)
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it looks like "13M".
Also...if you look at the way he writes "acknowledge" in the first line of this second writing sample, it could well be an attempt at "penitentiary" in the first sample! ;D
Best regards,
Karen
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Can I throw a spanner in the works! I do agree that the first word in 2nd line is "the". But is there a chance that it could be "His". In other words, Luke sent Word lost his....
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Comparison; NOTE v MATHIAS hand writing. Mathias' hand written "s" is fairly clear cut and uniform. Like a narrow italic 8
Alan.