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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: yellowfurbaby on Saturday 23 November 19 23:01 GMT (UK)

Title: John Brophy please help
Post by: yellowfurbaby on Saturday 23 November 19 23:01 GMT (UK)
Hi all please help I am really stuck. Desperately trying to find more about my GG Grandfather John Brophy. I know he was born in Ireland around 1863. At some stage before he got married he moved to Bolton and married Mary Lonigan.
From the census in England I think it says Killkenny.
I have also been on deceased online and found the grave where he is buried with Mary and someone called Winifred Brophy? John died in 1934. Mary his wife 1940 and this mysterious Winifred in 1906?? I don’t see that name in any of the censuses.
I am soon wanting to visit Killkenny and would love to be able to find out more about John Brophy than just he was born in Killkenny!!
Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 02:25 GMT (UK)
The code 603 on the 1911 census confirms he was from Kilkenny.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 02:39 GMT (UK)
Do you have his marriage certificate? Who is his father...and what was his father's occupation?
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 02:45 GMT (UK)
Winifred Brophy was his daughter.She was born in1906...and died the same year.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 02:49 GMT (UK)
Birth
   Name:   Mother's Maiden Surname:
   BROPHY, WINIFRED       LONERGAN 
GRO Reference: 1906  M Quarter in BOLTON  Volume 08C  Page 505

 Death indexes for the years: 1906
Surname   Forename(s)   Age or Date of Birth   Sub-District   Registers At   Reference

BROPHY   Winifred   0   Little Bolton   Bolton   

Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: yellowfurbaby on Sunday 24 November 19 06:02 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for that. Ok that clears Winifred up I was kind of hoping Winifred was Johns mother then I could get back another generation.
So now I am still stuck at John then. I am having real issues with this. I have him on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census in living in Bolton England. I have him married to Mary Lonigan (Lonegan) and their children but that’s it. :(
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 06:14 GMT (UK)
Think you need to get the marriage certificate.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: yellowfurbaby on Sunday 24 November 19 06:24 GMT (UK)
Yes I think you are right. Just trying to locate it on ancestry files.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 06:37 GMT (UK)
Just out of interest... Did John follow the Irish naming pattern. It sometimes gives a clue as to parentage if he did.

First son usually named for the father's father
Second son usually named for the mother's father
Third son usually named for the father
Fourth son usually named for the father's eldest brother
Fifth son usually named for the mother's eldest brother
First daughter usually named for the mother's mother
Second daughter usually named for the father's mother
Third daughter usually named for the mother
Fourth daughter usually named for the mother's eldest sister
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: yellowfurbaby on Sunday 24 November 19 06:44 GMT (UK)
John Brophy B 1863
His son John Brophy B 1901
His son (my grandad) John brophy b 1927

So yes :)

Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 06:45 GMT (UK)
But what did he name his first born son?
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 24 November 19 06:49 GMT (UK)
If you know his wife's father and mother's names... You can check if he followed the naming pattern.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: yellowfurbaby on Sunday 24 November 19 06:57 GMT (UK)
Their son Martin is their oldest. Then their younger son John. I haven’t got back further than John and Mary.
Title: Re: John Brophy please help
Post by: Marcello on Sunday 24 November 19 11:52 GMT (UK)
Hi,

As Gortonboy writes, I think the marriage certificate would be a good place to start as it should give you John's father's name (possibly Martin) and occupation, and also may indicate whether or not his father was alive at the time of marriage.

Marriage Index from FreeBMD:-

Marriage of John Brophy and Mary Lonergan
Year: 1886
Quarter: 2/June
Registration District: Bolton
Volume: 8c
Page: 476

In case you haven't ordered certificates before, here is the link:-
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

As Civil Registration in Ireland only began in 1864, you may not be able to get a birth certificate, however, if you can confirm John's father's name, you may be able to find a baptismal record in one of the parishes in Co. Kilkenny.

Best of luck!