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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Koromo on Friday 19 August 05 19:38 BST (UK)
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Kia ora
I am tracking an Edward Wright Brothers who emigrated to NZ in 1859 (from Liverpool) with his wife Elizabeth and one-year-old son. I checked the online Auckland City Library records and found:
Edward W Brothers, vessel: 1859
Eliza Brothers, vessel: Shooting Star, 1859
Maria Brothers, vessel: Shooting Star, 1859
Edward did have a sister called Maria, so I guess she went too!
Question is, why does Edward not have a ship's name listed? I found a passenger list on an Oz website, and he is not there. Also, were the passengers' ages normally listed by any chance?
Moving twenty-ish years on: in 1877 in Napier, the aforementioned one-year-old son William Edward Brothers married Ann Collick born in Cornwall in ~1850. She must have travelled to NZ, but I can't find her on any passenger list. I'd really like to know if she appears on one with other family members - that way I might be able to trace her in Cornwall.
I am a NZer, but not living there, so am trying to do all this at some distance!
Many thanks
Koromo
:)
Edited to add: I think I've worked out that the lack of Edward W Brothers' ship's name is a transcriber's error. If I search (at the Akd City Library online) on the ship Shooting Star, his name comes up.
And ... does anyone know if the Papakura cemetery records are online?
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Hi Koromo,
It doesn't look as though Parakura Cemetery is on-line, but there is a series of microfiche available indexed by area and cemetery at some libraries. If you tell me who you are looking for and what you know about them including estimated DoD I'll have a look for you next week .
The marriage reference for William Edward BROTHERS spells Ann COLLICKs surname as COLLIET. I can't find any passengers of either name on the microfiche series Passengers Vic AUS to NZ Ports so she appears not to have travelled on a vessel via Melbourne VIC to get to NZ.
Regards, riley
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Hello Riley
I had a feeling ::) that Ann Collick's name was going to be one of those with infinite spelling variations! Thanks for looking for her.
I had hoped I could browse the Papkura Cemetery names. I know very little about my grandparents' generation of the NZ Brothers line, but I have found out from a NZ Herald notice that my grandmother died at her residence in Mt Albert and yet was buried at Papakura. It seems a long way to go for the burial especially in those days, so I had wondered if other family members were buried there too. Thank you for your very kind offer of looking through the cemetery fiche, but it really is too much to ask when it is only a hunch on my part.
However, do you have access to the Intent to Marry notices? I would be very interested to read the Grandparent Brothers' notice as it may hold another clue or two. Their full details are:
Charles Edward HENRY BROTHERS
b. 8 Sep 1886, Newcastle, NSW, Australia
d. 10 Dec 1941
MARTHA Ann Elizabeth BATES
b. 29 Nov 1886, Onehunga
d. 17 Sep 1914, Mt Albert
They were married 24 July 1907, Kingsland, Auckland, according to LDS.
Apparently, C E Henry Brothers married again soon after Martha's death in 1914. I have no idea to whom, but they all seem to have been Aucklanders. If you were by chance to stumble across an ITM notice for this second marriage in perhaps 1915 or 1916, it would fill rather a large gap in my family knowledge. If this isn't enough information for you to find it quickly, please don't waste any time on it.
Best wishes
Koromo
:)
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Hi Koromo,
I was taught when I first started this game that a good genealogist follows up every lead (in my case, with the addendum 'eventually'). Serendipidity happens. I'll check your lead.
I'll check the ITM, which should be easy as you've provided a date and place, and look for the second marriage in the RGO marriage fiche. It won't give you a place, but it will narrow down the year, and you can search the NZ Herald for a marriage notice.
Once you get a date, a search for the ITM is the next step, as the problem with ITM's after 1881 is that they aren't indexed and require a search over the four quarters of the year - and in Auckland region that would be lots of pages!
Regards, riley
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Riley, thank you so much - I will await your findings, and follow your advice re the second marriage. I do hope you have time to track your own interests in between helping everyone else!
Kind regards
K.
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Hi Koromo,
I omitted to check Papakura Cemetery, but did find that your Charles BROTHERS second marriage was to a Spineo MOROS in 1915, folio no. 07723.
I found the Intention to Marry notice for his first marriage in 1907:
National Archives - Wellington Office.
Ref: BDM 20/66 Auckland p.123/658.
Notice dated 23 July 1907: Charles Edward Henry BROTHERS, a bachelor aged 20 years, occupation Millhand, dwelling at Auckland, length of residence 3 days, to marry Martha Ann Elizabeth BATES, a spinster aged 20, no dwelling place given, length of residence 8 mos (months), at the house of Mr W.H. Bates, Kingsland. Name and Relation of Person giving consent in case of a minor: Charles BROTHERS, father; William H. BATES, father.
Rev. E.O. (A?) Perry, Presbyterian.
Since I had time remaining I decided to look for the 1915 marriage, and found it:
Ref: BDM 20/90 Auckland p.301/1441.
Notice dated 4 November 1915: Charles Edward Henry BROTHERS, a widower aged 29 years, occupation Railway Guard, dwelling at Auckland, length of residence 6 mos (months), to marry Spineo MOROS, a spinster aged 19, dwelling at Auckland, length of residence 9 years, at St Judes Church, Avondale. Name and Relation of Person giving consent in case of a minor: Elizabeth MOROS, mother.
Rev. H.R. JECKS, Anglican.
The writing is a bit difficult to interpret in places, with ‘Henry’ appearing as ‘Hewnf’, so the Rev. Jecks could be ‘Jenks’, perhaps. And while Miss Moros residence isn't given, I suspect it was also Auckland, given that she had been there 9 years.
Regards, riley
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Ohhhh, Riley! You found both ITMs! I don't know what to say! :D I am sitting here (in Cyprus, The Med!) in a state of utter astonishment , as if I've been transported back in time and place.
I keep coming back to the computer to read what you have found (and yes, I have saved it, and a backup!). It has verified what little I knew, and provided me with so much more to go on. The name Spineo Moros is very unusual! Forget the Papakura Cemetery, this will keep me occupied for quite a while.
I cannot thank you enough. I really, really appreciate it.
Best regards
Koromo
:)
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You're welcome. Serendipidity happens.
Cheers, riley
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Hi Koromo,
I checked the Cemetery fiche for Papakura Cemetery today, but I'm sorry to say there are no BROTHERS buried there.
riley
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Ah, so serendipity didn't strike this time!
It's a bit odd though, that not even Martha Brothers is listed. Perhaps the transcript of the NZ Herald death notice I found is wrong, or even the original newspaper compositor made the error.
I really appreciate that you took the time to check it out.
Kind regards
Koromo
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I don't know if this is still a current dialogue but I have just come across it. I am a descendant of Edward Wright Brothers. and may be able to further the inquiry although I would like to first have some indication as to what prompts the inquiry and what relationships are involved. regards Benyate
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Hello Benyate
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I've learned quite a lot about Edward Wright Brothers since I started this thread, and have tracked his family back to the late 1700s in Nottingham and forward to many of his New Zealand descendants.
His son Charles Brothers (1865-1944) had a son Charles Edward Henry Brothers (1886-1941) who was my grandfather (from his first marriage to Martha Ann Elizabeth Bates).
I am very curious to know where you fit in to the Brothers ancestral line (does your RootsChat name provide a clue?).
I'm delighted that you've made contact. :)
Koromo
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Hello Koromo, Thanks for your reply. I know nothing about Rootschat which I stumbled on quite by accident and I'm not sure how much information one should give out on what appears to be a very public forum and whether steps can be taken to make it more confidential. Perhaps you can advise about this. I know nothing about any other branch of the Brothers line except my own and I look forward eagerly to any information you can give me. My initial interest was sparked when I started to investigate our ancestor Maria Brothers who was Edward Wright Brothers sister and is notable in early N.Z. history for becomng the wife of one of our early quite famous pre Maori war missionaries, Benjamin Yate Ashwell. (hence Benyate, which is nothing like my real name but eveything else I tried seemed to be taken already!) At this point abour 4 months ago I hadn't even heard of Edward Wright Brothers, until further research revealed the male line that I come from. My grandmother was his daughter Maude Brothers who I suppose therefore was your grandfathers sister. She married to become Maude Lee. I think there may have been some interesting history from her younger days as they lived at Razorback in Bombay where General Cameron had set up fortified houses called Blockhouses from Miranda across to Patumahoe to help guard against any attempted Maori incursion toward Auckland.Razorback was important because it guarded the end of the Great South Road, which was later pushed on South to the Waikato River by General Cameron's troops to give military access to the Waikato area. Maria Brothers became a teacher further south at the Taupiri School which I think was started by Benjamin Ashwell. As with all of us I wish I'd listened more to my grandmother because my memories of what she said about these things are now very indistinct. She died when I was only 9 years old so I wasn't very interested. I am now 70 years old, male, almost retired and have one brother,younger. There are two other descendants of my generation still living but older than me, and a number of offspring whom would I suppose be the same generation as you. According to my information Edward Wright Brothers is buried at Purewa, not Papakura. That is probably enough about me for now. I live in Auckland. I have photos of my own Grandmother but no other family member of her generation or earlier. Look forward to your next communication. regards Benyate.
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Hi Benyate
Benjamin Yate [Ashwell] was the person that sprang to my mind when I saw your RootsChat name, but then I got worried because as far as I knew he and Maria didn't have any children! Have you come across the biographical details of Rev Ashwell in The Blain Biographical Directory of Anglican Clergy in the Pacific?
http://anglicanhistory.org/nz/blain_directory/
The second blue link on the left is a .pdf file which you can download to your computer and is an alphabetical listing of anglican clergymen.
Yes, Maud Frances Mary BROTHERS was a sister to my great-grandfather Charles (1865-1944) which I think makes us second cousins once removed. Charles was born in NZ but married in New South Wales where all his children were born. They came back to NZ, then over to Australia again ... I think Charles was following the gold discoveries, rather like his father Edward Wright seemed to do after he'd left the 4th Waikato Militia.
When you have made three posts on RootsChat I will be able to send you a private message and give you my email address to contact me directly. I am happy to share what I know about about the BROTHERS — there's also a branch that ended up in Australia from Edward Wright's eldest brother Benjamin (1823-1895), but I've never found any descendants.
Kind regards
Koromo
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Hi Koromo, You obviously know far more than I and I look forward to getting the complete and probably more accurate picture of the family background. I've looked at the site you sent and I will certainly study it further. Most of what I know of Benjamin Ashwell is from the booklet "Te Ahiwera a man of Faith"by Mary Tagg. This should be my 3rd posting so perhaps the next reply can be direct. I am emailing from N.Z. and about to go to bed .Look forward to maybe a little more from you tomorrow. regards from (for now)Benyate