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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Kissimmee on Friday 15 November 19 23:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Friday 15 November 19 23:46 GMT (UK)
Have an Annie Baker married an Albert Victor Clift in 1912 Dunmow he was killed in 1917 and in
1922 she married a Fredrick James Clift in Dunmow

Albert was born 1887 Dunmow and Frederick was born 1880 Dunmow

If someone could please find out for me if they were brothers or related

Thanks in advance for any help
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 16 November 19 00:21 GMT (UK)
There are two ways you can find that answer.

Check the 1891 census to see if they have the same parents - www.familysearch.org

Look for their birth registrations on freebmd then use GRO online to find their mothers maiden names

www.freebmd.org.uk
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Saturday 16 November 19 01:17 GMT (UK)
Thank you for coming back so quickly.  I have checked them out on the BMD that is how I got both their birth years and place but I cannot access the census without being a paying member but thank you for your suggestions

Kissimmee
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Lady Di on Saturday 16 November 19 03:38 GMT (UK)
You don't need to be a paying member of any of the sites that CaroleW has shown.

I believe that you will find your answer simply by checking the links provided.

OR you could spend a lot of money and order both marriage certs
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 16 November 19 11:40 GMT (UK)
Census info is free on Familysearch

If you have ever ordered a copy cert from the GRO then you will have created a login/password

Use that on the link I gave.  If you don't have a login - you can register for free and the search and info is all free
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Saturday 16 November 19 14:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks once again for your info
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: cuffie81 on Saturday 16 November 19 22:52 GMT (UK)
Marriage:
married: 06 Jan 1912, Holy Cross, Felsted; banns
groom: Albert Victor Clift; 24; bach; groom; Felsted
bride: Annie Baker; 25; spin; -; Felsted
grooms father: James Clift; coachman
brides father: Charles Baker; horseman
witnesses: Arthur Clift, Lily Baker

I couldn't find the 1922 marriage but given the high page number it was likely a Register Office marriage (or non-conformist). But if you follow Carole and Lady Di's suggestions you should find the relationship between Albert and Frederick.

Also, if you're trying to determine the fathers of Annie children you'll probably need to widen the net. I can see five children, all registered under the name Clift, with mother's maiden name Baker. All five were baptised at Holy Cross, Felsted.

Fathers named on the baptism records:
1st Albert Victor
2nd Albert Victor
3rd George, named crossed out. See notes below.
4th Father unnamed
5th Frederick James

For the 3rd child, born 1917, there's a newspaper item re. the paternity of the child.

Essex Newsman
09 Jun 1917
Remarkable Paternity Case
- Mrs Annie Clift, married, of Felsted
- summoned George Lanham, a young mechanic, single, of South Street, Braintree
- Mrs Clift's husband a soldier serving in France
- Mr Clift's last visits home were Christmas 1915 and Christmas 1916, and no time in between
- Child born 08 Mar 1917
- Mrs Clift met Mr Lanham whilst staying with her sister, Mrs L Lanham, of 138 South Street, Braintree
- Mrs Clift had 3 [?] children besides this one


Mrs L Lanham appears to be Lily Lanham (nee Baker) who married Alfred James Lanham, in 1914. George Lanham appears to the be the brother of Alfred (again, if you use the links provided by Carole you can find the Lanham family).

Marriage:
married: 08 Aug 1914, St Michael the Archangel; Braintree; banns
groom: Alfred James Lanham; 21; bach; stage manager; 105 South Street, Braintree
bride: Lily Baker; 21; spin; -; Fairfield? Road, Braintree
grooms father: Joseph Lanham; mechanic
brides father: Charles Baker; horseman
witnesses: Thomas Stanley Williams, Arthur Baker, Emma Gunn
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Sunday 17 November 19 00:17 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for going to so much trouble on my behalf you must have really worked hard to find out so much and the newspaper article was a real bonus,  Following early advice I have proved that they were brothers, on the 1891 census with their parents them being James Clift & Emily Gower.

Thanks to everyone who helped

Kissimmee
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: amondg on Sunday 17 November 19 07:56 GMT (UK)
New GRO index

Albert Victor Clift registered Braintree 1887 mothers maiden name Gowers

Frederick James Clift registered Braintree 1880 mothers maiden name Gowers

as I did plus or minus 2 years it also shows Harry Clift registered Braintree 1882 with mothers maiden name Gowers.

Looks like they were brothers
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: amondg on Sunday 17 November 19 08:23 GMT (UK)
James Clift married Emily Gowers 16 December 1871 at Great Waltham Essex

his father William Clift, her father George Gowers.

1881 census Bocking Essex
James Clift 29 born Great Waltham  coachman
Emily 28 born Great Waltham
Phoebe 7 born Great Waltham
Ada L 6 born Great Waltham
George W 3 born Great Waltham
Fred J 1 born Bocking

1891 census Bocking
James Clift 39 coachman and servant born G.W.
Emily 39 born G.W.
Ada 16 born G.W.
Fred 11 born Bocking
Harry 9 born Bocking
Herbert 7 born Bocking
Oliver 6 born Bocking
Victor 3 born Bocking  (aka Albert Victor)
Arthur 10/12 born Bocking

1901 census Langley's Lodge Great Waltham
James 49 coachman and domestic servant
Emily 49
Frederick James 21 Groom and domestic
Herbert John 17   Groom and domestic
Oliver 15  Grocers assistant
Victor 13  stable boy domestic
Arthur 10
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Sunday 17 November 19 15:07 GMT (UK)
Many thanks that confirms what I picked up on the 1891 census and proves that they were brothers.

I have been so lucky with all the help everyone has done for me that I am going to post another request that has been bugging me for some time.

Kissimmee
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: cuffie81 on Sunday 17 November 19 15:50 GMT (UK)
Curiosity got the better of me (again). This is completely off your original topic, of Annie's husbands, sorry.

That newspaper item referred to Annie having 3 other children but I could only see 2 other Clift children. Looking into it I think Annie may have had a child before marrying Albert.

Baptism - Holy Cross, Felsted:
24 Apr 1910: William Henry Baker; parents: Annie; Felstead; domestic? servant

GRO reference:
1910 Q1 Birth: William Henry Baker (mmn: -); Dunmow; vol 4a; page 837
Title: Re: Clift - Dunmow Essex
Post by: Kissimmee on Sunday 17 November 19 19:13 GMT (UK)
Is there no end to this lady and her goings on?  My maiden name was Baker and Annie Baker was my grandfather's second cousin.  I have lead a very dull life in comparison.

I would never have found out any of this information with out help

Thank you to everyone who helped

Kissimmee