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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 14:57 GMT (UK)

Title: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 14:57 GMT (UK)
Hi all... Can anyone please help me trace my great x 4 grandmother please!?
(there is a lot of history of my decendants online). Evans (dwygyfylchi)

Anyway here Goes..

Her name was hanna grace Evans Born 1856 Dwygyfylchi (conway)
She had 3 sons (of which i know)
David Evans Born 1882
William evans Born 1884 ( conway workhouse)
Thomas evans  Born 1879.

I know that Thomas was bought up by his GM Mary Evans in dwygyfylchi.

In 1891  william 6yrs and David 9yrs were Pauper inmates at conway workhouse!! "no sign of hannah"

Through searchin welsh newspapers online i found that hanna grace evans was Convicted a few times of larceny and also for attacking the workhouse Master.

Apparently as the story in the paper  in 1884 - 1885 says the workhouse master was trying to remove my Grandfather William evans from his mother as he was now old enough to be weaned 8mnths??
Apparently she attacked him and ripped a part of his beard off his face..
She was sentenced to 20 days Hard labour.

The children from  what i gather was adopted (apart from thomas)

I cannot trace ANY info of hannah grace evans after the newspaoer report in 1885..

Please can anyone help

Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 15:03 GMT (UK)
Forgot to Add,, no father was included in the birth cert of william and thomas.

I do not own davids cert
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 16:03 GMT (UK)
Quote
David Evans Born 1882

I wonder if this is the birth registration for David

Evans - David Jones - Mar 1882 Conway - no mothers maiden name

If so the middle name Jones could be a clue to the father but Jones + Wales give a lot of options.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 16:04 GMT (UK)
Quote
I cannot trace ANY info of hannah grace evans after the newspaoer report in 1885..

Have you looked for a possible marriage for her?
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 16:09 GMT (UK)
Yes.. Tried most things..
BDM... Brick wall!!!
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 16:13 GMT (UK)
No more newspaper reports of her attacking anyone else's beard I suppose  :o
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 16:13 GMT (UK)
Lol... I wish....

Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 16:16 GMT (UK)
There's a Hannah Evans who dies in Conway in 1936 age 81 - born abt 1855 - but without a middle name as an extra clue no way of knowing if she was your Hannah. 
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Richard Knott on Sunday 10 November 19 18:16 GMT (UK)
Not a great help, but you can go one year beyond 1885 as there is a newspaper report (FindMyPast) in the Baner ac Amserau Cymru (Welsh Flag and Times) for June 1886 which says:
Hannah Grace Evans made her appearance before the magistrates in Bangor on Wednesday, and four charges of theft.

Richard
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Dyingout on Sunday 10 November 19 18:38 GMT (UK)
1886 Four charges of Theft
That would be enough to get her transported, I would have thought?
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 18:46 GMT (UK)
Ahhhhh.. Thank you.. That might be another Lead then....
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 10 November 19 19:28 GMT (UK)
I think that’s too late for Transportation.
I think last convict ship (to Australia) was 1868.  The Australians will know.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 20:51 GMT (UK)
Didnt think of transportation!!
In theory then, if i found the court case papers, that would show punishment?
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 10 November 19 21:08 GMT (UK)
Hi
Just confirming that transportation was well over by 1880's
Mid 1850's saw the end of it in most states and mid 1860's was the complete ending in Australia.
Sue
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 10 November 19 21:28 GMT (UK)
Not much help, but the 4 charges of theft came on the same day as she was freed from prison having been in for a month! Here's the full details

HEAVV SHOP LIFTING AT BANGOR.-A woman of ill fame from Penmaenmawr, named Hannah Grace Evans, was brought before the Bangor magistrates on Wednesday, charged with a series of thefts from various shops in the town It appeared the defendant took a suit of clothes, value 10s from the shop of Mr W. Thompson; three pairs of stockings  value 2s ?d the property of David Griffiths, Hirael, a pair of boots value 4s 6d the property of Thomas Davies, High-street, and a quarter pound of wool, the property of Catherine Pritchard London House, Llanfairfechan, value Is 4d. Defendant pleaded guilty to all charges and was sentenced to six weeks imprisonment in each case, being finally committed for six months.—P.C. Pugh (No 19) proved the offences, and at the close of the hearing the justices expressed their high satisfaction at the manner in which the police had dealt with the matter suggesting that the attention of the Chief Constable should be drawn to the case.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 21:35 GMT (UK)
Wow...... Mad.... She must be in prison or dead by the 1891 census then i reckon
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 22:09 GMT (UK)
Oh dear she was a naughty girl wasn't she  :-X
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Sunday 10 November 19 22:18 GMT (UK)
Lol... Story of most If not all of my family history..
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 22:21 GMT (UK)
Present company excepted I'm sure  :D

Just can't find her for you, the reports have her as Hannah Grace which you'd think would help find her after but nope.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 10 November 19 22:23 GMT (UK)
There is a family tree with her on - Jones family tree - but it's private so I can't view any information on her.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Monday 11 November 19 07:20 GMT (UK)
Yes, thats my tree,   i just find her life so heartbreaking and i want to find her you know?
Thank you for trying..
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: pb_devon on Monday 11 November 19 08:21 GMT (UK)
Now you have so much info, I wonder if you could edit the thread title to show the name and place? It helps later browsers of the forum, who might have more to add, but might ignore such a generic title.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Jo Harding on Monday 11 November 19 11:53 GMT (UK)
This is a good challenge.

I think it would be worth you contacting the the person who has her in their private Family Tree on Ancestry. It is easy to do this and you click on the link provided. You never know what you might find.

The 1881 census has an interesting entry for the status of Hannah Grace Evans. It is difficult to read but looks like "remarried". I wonder what that is all about. The family would have been known in Dwygyfylchi as Mary Evans had the grocer's shop there. I wonder if there are any local sources on them in the archives.

I have tried to find her after 1891 and failed the same as everybody else. I wonder if she may have moved area in view of her misdemeanours. Dwygyfylchi is a bit small if you gain notoriety I would have thought.

There is a marriage for a Hannah Evans in Conwy in 1889. Without the middle name it is impossible to say if it is her.

Mary Evans, her mother, would have had some assets to leave her family by the look of it. Have you tried to find her death and Will to see if Hannah is mentioned? The 1881 census states she was born in St Asaph.

I don't think the brick wall is going to come down any time soon unfortunately.

Jo.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Monday 11 November 19 12:02 GMT (UK)
Hi jo....  Im certain she was Unmarried.
.
Have a look at this jo..

This is detailed... I have tried contacting the person that wrote the Blog. 4 times with no reply..

https://morecroftfamily.wordpress.com/evans/richard-evans-1725-and-descendants/
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Jo Harding on Monday 25 November 19 12:43 GMT (UK)
I think you are right about her being unmarried.

It must be frustrating for you with the person who did the blog on the family failing to respond to your request.

I think it might be worth looking at Mary Evans' death and her Will, if any. That might give some clues about Hannah Grace. I think Mary Evans is still in Dwygyfylchi in 1891. She is Postmistress at Bryn Aber and with son, Richard age 30, General Labourer, born Penmaenmawr. Grandson, Thomas, age 11, born Penmaenmawr. Thomas is presumably the son of Hannah Grace as he was with Mary in the 1881 census age 18 months.

I have looked at the address in 1891 and it seems to be around the same area as in the 1881. Have you tried a place search of Dwygyfylchi to see if she is there after that? Mary Evans is shown as aged 65 in 1891. It is going to be a tough task to find a death for Mary Evans without more information.

Jo.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: alpinecottage on Monday 25 November 19 14:11 GMT (UK)
The blog was written in 2012 and the writer states she married in 1967, which makes her over 70 years old and possibly older than 80 now.  A lot could have happened over the last 7 years - if she is still alive, she may have moved into a nursing home and have lost her access to the blog or forgotten about it.  Wordpress is free, so the blog may just stay there until Wordpress itself ceases to be.

Is there enough info in it (I've not read it all) to track down any of the writers younger relatives?
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Jo Harding on Wednesday 27 November 19 11:05 GMT (UK)
I don't know if it is worth a post on this site:

https://www.facebook.com/PenmaenmawrAndDwygyfylchiForum/

There is sufficient information to trace some of the lines from the blog. It is worth a try to see where you get.

Jo.
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 27 November 19 19:35 GMT (UK)
It might be worth looking at parish registers for paternity orders for Hannah grace.s children .the parish would avoid paying for their upkeep of she had named father(s).
She could be on census using a " married surname even if she wasn't actually married .

Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: neil16377 on Wednesday 27 November 19 19:50 GMT (UK)
Problem solved guys..
Found her, she had married a john roberts.
Had 2 more daughters
Mary
And nellie.

1891 married wrexam

Why whete her children David and william still in poorhouse conway!?

Then in 1901 in Crown street caernarfon. Common lodge.

Then in 1911 pepper lane caernarfon.


Can anyone find mary after 1911?..

I think (nellie died at 4 days old and buried in dwygyfylchi
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: Jo Harding on Thursday 28 November 19 10:11 GMT (UK)
Well done!

Can you please post the references of the census returns as I cannot bring them up on these? What were the years of birth of Nellie and Mary? Where did you find their marriage as I cannot locate this up to now?

I expect her sons wouldn't have been welcome in her new marriage, or she may not have disclosed them to her new husband. It is common for children born illegitimately not to be part of the family when their mother marries subsequently.

Jo
Title: Re: Help in Solving a BIG Family mystery
Post by: chempat on Thursday 28 November 19 11:46 GMT (UK)
Think this is the 1911 referred to
John Roberts   63  labourer  Bangor, Carnarvon,
Hannah Roberts   52  married 20 years 4 children born and living  Penmachno, Carnarvon
Mary Roberts   18  Abergele, Denbighshire