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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: hackney51 on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:04 GMT (UK)

Title: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: hackney51 on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:04 GMT (UK)
Could someone help me please as I've hit a brick wall, my gg grandfather John Tompkins has a record of being in Forton Prison  in 1871 and I am unable to find out any information of why and what was the history of this place??? if anyone could help I would be very grateful thank you
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: bbart on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:22 GMT (UK)
Hi, and welcome to Rootschat!

Looking through old newspapers, most times "Forton Prison" is mentioned, it is referred to as a military prison.  Have you found any military records for him?
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: cath151 on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:25 GMT (UK)
Hi, welcome  :)
Do you have a little more info on him, age, where he lived? Was it 1871 or 1881?

Cathy
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Jool on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:25 GMT (UK)
Hi and welcome,

Could you please clarify the year, your thread title says 1881 but the post says 1871.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 19:57 GMT (UK)
There is a crime record for a John Tompkins dated 19th July 1869, Aylesbury in the county of Buckingham.

Committed burglary and given eight years penal servitude.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 20:03 GMT (UK)
There is a John Tompkins in prison in Portsea, age 42, birth year 1829, birth county Oxfordshire.  Is this your John?

Registration district   Portsea Island
Archive reference   RG10
Piece number   1133
Folio   115
Page   41
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 20:08 GMT (UK)
There is another crime record for 1852 for a John Tompkins born 1830.  If you could tell us where and when your John was born it would help narrow him down.

The information I have given so far is speculative.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: spendlove on Tuesday 05 November 19 20:11 GMT (UK)
Originally for prisoners of war, but it appears by 1871 for none military prisoners.

Look at image 1 and 2 of this census set this shows prison officers were classed as “civil servants”, a number of articles suggest this prison was used for long term prisoners.


https://historicgosport.uk/forton-prison/

Spendlove

Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: hackney51 on Tuesday 05 November 19 21:12 GMT (UK)
Apologies..not very good at this lol.. here we go...John Francis Leopold Tompkins dob July 1852 mother Mary Ann Elizabeth Lawrence/father William Tompkins) he married Ann Shea in July 1880, probably St Pancras/St.Marylebone London  they had 5 children she was born in 1856 whereabouts I cant find...I cant find ANYTHING about her, just her name. My nan Elizabeth Tompkins was one of the 5 children. in 1871 or 81 (?) it mentions on the census that he was at Forton, no mention of why or what he had done after that I cant find any death information for either him or Ann, or any other information about them I would  really appreciate any info..many thanks ( and good luck!)
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 21:24 GMT (UK)
Well this is the marriage record

Marriages Sep 1880   
SHEA    Ann        Pancras    1b   298    
TOMPKINS    John        Pancras    1b   298

If you get the marriage certificate it will tell you who the fathers are.  Someone may be able to find it on Ancestry as I think they have images for marriages in London.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 21:39 GMT (UK)
I found the family in 1891 and I can't quite believe how the enumerator managed to do this!  :o

Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 21:42 GMT (UK)
Even the transcription has her down as Arthur, but of course the transcribers have to write what they see.

Place of birth for 'Arthur' is London, St. Pancras as is everyone else in the family.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 05 November 19 21:52 GMT (UK)
This may be Ann's birth, but you really need to get her marriage certificate to find out her father's name.

SHEA, ANN       ROACH 
GRO Reference: 1855  S Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01A  Page 332
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: hackney51 on Wednesday 06 November 19 07:19 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for this info, I will order the marriage certificate :) just waiting on the Forton Prison info now...I'm wondering if he actually dies there???...maybe someone who is more experienced than me could look into it for me please..really stuck on this one lol!!
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 06 November 19 07:49 GMT (UK)
He is still around in the 1911 census, still at the same address as 1901 which is Litcham Street, St. Pancras

There is this death which could be him although age slightly out.

Deaths Jun 1915   
Tompkins    John    66    Pancras    1b   164

This gives a birth year of 1849.  John's birth year is 1852 however on one census it is given as 1855.  The person registering the death may not have known his exact birth year.  You can get a pdf from the GRO at a cost of £7.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 06 November 19 07:53 GMT (UK)
Could this be them in 1901?: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9ZQ-DZQ

1911?: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLL-CSQ

Jamjar
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 06 November 19 07:59 GMT (UK)
Where do you have John on census prior to his marriage

I think I have him in 1871 (reply 20)
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 06 November 19 08:06 GMT (UK)
Where did you get the idea that John had been in Forton Prison? 
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 06 November 19 08:20 GMT (UK)
This looks like John's parents marriage

Marriages Sep 1850   
Lawrence    Mary Ann Elizabeth        St Pancras    1   344    
TOMPKINS    William        St Pancras    1   344
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 06 November 19 08:22 GMT (UK)
Children:

TOMPKINS, JOHN  LAWRENCE mmn SHEA 
GRO Reference: 1884  J Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 173

TOMPKINS, JAMES  WILLIAM mmn SHAY 
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 153

TOMPKINS, ELIZABETH mmn SHEA 
GRO Reference: 1890  M Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 122

I can’t see the other two girls.

Jamjar
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 06 November 19 10:06 GMT (UK)
1871 census for the Forton record

RG10/1150 f108 p5
Forton, Prison (Alverstoke)
John Tompkins - Unmarried -21 - Soldier -bn London, Middlesex

How did you get back to the birth record you are mentioning without having the details of his father from his marriage record.
Title: Re: John Tompkins Forton Prison 1881?
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 06 November 19 10:36 GMT (UK)
Good find Rosie, but is it Hackney's John or a different one?  If the one you found was 22 later in the year that gives a birth year of 1849.

The John we are currently following was born in 1852 and parents married in 1850.  We need to wait until Hackney has got John and Ann's marriage cert to see who the fathers are.