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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Antoinette 12 on Tuesday 22 October 19 18:17 BST (UK)
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Hoping someone who is more experienced in research can help me please.
Sarah Elizabeth Fellows
Born: 22.5.1825
Bpt: 17.7.1825 Newington Surrey
Father John Fellows Mother: Sarah ?
Married: Charles Witney 1841
find them in the 1851census living in 62 Catherine Street Lambeth
Cant find Sarah after this.
In 1861 her husband Charles is in Hackney Workhouse where he died in 1862 listed as Blind
but cant find anything else. Did she marry again? Or did she die? Looked on BMD for a death but cant find anything. Hope this is not too long winded.
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If she remarried it will be on freebmd. Some of the London 1861 is missing
Any children? Have you found any of the children in 1861?
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
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Have you already discounted the Sarah Witney death in Pancras 1854 aged 34
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? Are they the family in 1851 with possibly 3 children, age a bit out for Sarah Elizabeth?
HO107/1572/112/2
Keyboard86
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I'm a bit confused as in 1851 wife is shown as plain Elizabeth, and they had a son Charles John baptised Lambeth 30/8/1846 - however, his birth entry on GRO Index shows mmn as Price!!
Annette
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Charles and Elizabeth are still at 62 Catherine Street, London in 1861 - he's a Cooper on both.
Somethings wrong here - there are 2 different Charles.
Annette
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There’s also this baptism
Sarah Elizabeth Witney
Baptism Date: 6 Jul 1851
Baptism Place: St Mary Lambeth
Father: Charles Witney Brick maker
Mother: Elizabeth Abode workhouse
SARAH ELIZABETH WITNEY
Birth year 1851
Birth quarter 2
Mother's maiden name Fellows
District Lambeth
Volume 4 Page 330
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Have found his poor law settlement papers from March 1854 - Hackney workhouse again. Charles is son of Francis and his wife, both dead. Charles born in his father's house in Castle of Kingsland
Son Charles is mentioned - aged 9
Wife Sarah - not chargeable, has left her husband
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? Equally confused , are you certain the married Charles Witney in the Hackney Workhouse is your Charles RG09/159/157/23
Possible 1851 for him HO107/1504/163/10
Keyboard86
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Also a JOhn Whitney mmn Fellows b Hackney Q1 1845
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1841 marriage cert shows Sarah Elizabeth as a minor. Charles is full age occ labourer & father is Francis (deceased)
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Hi the January thread by the OP also mixes Witney families ie Charles John Witney?
Keyboard86
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Have you already discounted the Sarah Witney death in Pancras 1854 aged 34
Sarah Witney Age: 34
Record Type: Discharge
Discharge Date: 16 May 1854
Discharge Place: Camden, St Pancras, London
Died infirmary
London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Sarah Witney Age: 34
Death Date: 16 May 1854
Death Place: St Pancras Parish Chapel, Camden
Register Type: Parish Register
Women’s infirmary
London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003
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Is this Sarah Witney on 1851 census?
Workhouse Hackney Union
HO107 Piece 1505 Folio 673 Page 16
Sarah Whitney age 26 Walworth
Relationship Pauper
Marital status Married
Occupation needlewoman
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The earlier thread on Chales John Witney here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786429.0
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Thank you everybody for your time and advice. I think maybe somewhere down the line I have confused two Charles Witney's somehow so I'm going to take a deep breath and start again. So confusing! Wish me luck
Antoinette
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Hi who did your relative marry, where/when
Keyboard86
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He married Jane Cooper on 26.03.1866 in Bethnal Green. His father was stated as Charles Witney.
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Charles and Elizabeth are still at 62 Catherine Street, London in 1861 - he's a Cooper on both.
Somethings wrong here - there are 2 different Charles.
For info......
1872 marriage
Charles John WHITNEY f/a single occ Cooper , Catherine Street father Charles occ Cooper
He married Ellen SMITHERS f/a her father John Henry occ labourer
1881c Piece: 530 Folio: 97 Page Number: 14
Address 42 Webber Row London
Charles Whitney 33 Lambeth occ cooper
Ellen Whitney 28
Charles Whitney Admission Age: 64, wid., cooper’s labourer
Discharge Age: 65
Admission Date: 7 Dec 1912 Southwark, Southwark, London
Discharge Date: 21 Apr 1913 Southwark, Southwark, London
EDIT
30th Jan 1854 St Mary’s Newington
Charles WHITNEY f/a , Baker Street occ Cooper father Charles Gardener
Married Elizabeth FULLER widow father Thomas PRICE, broker
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thanks to all for your input Think I have this right Charles Witney now [fingers crossed] and hopefully on the correct trail for Sarah Elizabeth Fellows:
born 1811 Castle St. Kingsland
baptised 15.9.1811 St.John Hackney
1841 census: Living at Castle Street with Mother Ann
1841 13.6.1841 married Sarah Elizabeth Fellows
1851 census: Castle Street with widowed mother [no sign of Sarah]
1851 birth of daughter Sarah Elizabeth [JQ V.04 P.330 Lambeth] mmn Fellows baptised 6.7.1851
this is a bit strange because the daughter was born in the Infirmary of Workhouse Lambeth
1854 Poor Law Settlement which confirms Charles was born in Castle street Kingsland. His wife Sarah left.
1854 his wife Sarah died in the Workhouse 16.5.1854 and was buried in St.Pancreas Chapel.
Obviously I will have to buy a few death certs etc. to confirm all this and if anyone can see where maybe I have got it wrong please let me know. Once again thank you all without you I would still be going round in circles
Antoinette
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1854 his wife Sarah died in the Workhouse 16.5.1854 and was buried in St.Pancreas Chapel.
That lady was the wife of a Charles, but the wrong one I think. Husband said to be a Glazier. Two daughters Emily and Clara.
Clara died in the workhouse, June 1854.
Emily seems to be with her paternal grandfather William in 1861
"Sarah" was usually known as Susan, and likely was admitted to Pancras workhouse as Susan Witney, age 30, on 30 April 1854.
See Pancras rough settlement exams, Clara Maria Whitney, 1854 :) Says mother Susan Whitney died in Pancras workhouse.
Clara was baptized in Pancras, 16 Oct 1853 (online)
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There’s also this baptism
Sarah Elizabeth Witney
Baptism Date: 6 Jul 1851
Baptism Place: St Mary Lambeth
Father: Charles Witney Brick maker
Mother: Elizabeth Abode workhouse
Sarah Witney, 26, admitted to Lambeth workhouse 7 June 1851
Female Witney born that day
Both discharged 8 July 1851
Sarah Witney, 26, and child admitted to Lambeth workhouse 19 July 1851
Both discharged 6 August 1851
21 July 1851
Rough settlement exam in Lambeth of Sarah Elizth Witney
wife of Chas Witney, a brickmaker at Hackney
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Thank you Jon Sarah is a headache! I was so sure I had the right one it is so hard when there is so many gaps.Now Im wondering if I have the right Charles Witney. I shall have to retrace my records to make sure Im on the right path. I am sure of his son John Charles Witney [my Gt.Grandfather] So I will try again. Thank you for your input and time
Antoinette
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Im wondering if I have the right Charles Witney.
I shall have to retrace my records to make sure Im on the right path. I am sure of his son John Charles Witney [my Gt.Grandfather] So I will try again.
Do you have the birth certificate of your John Charles Witney confirming parents names, father's occupation & address?
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Do we have young Charles in 1851?
Could he be with his uncle Joseph Witney in Kensington and recorded as son?
Given as (looks like) age 4, born Hackney
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTD-B3S
Birth (and death) registrations and baptisms seem to put Joseph and his wife Jane in the Kensington/Hammersmith area at the time. No son Charles.
And I don't think her son is mentioned in the Lambeth exam, but is there something about another supposed wife of Sarah's husband (I may be misreading it!)
If you have ancestry.co.uk
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ojh/
Those workhouse admissions and discharge details (very brief) are also somewhere on ancestry, and on FamilySearch, faded images
(also image 184)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39L-9SW1-M?i=161&cat=1390389
I guess another question is, what happened to daughter Sarah Elizabeth born Lambeth?
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Thank you all for your input. sorry I haven't replied earlier but suffering from a rotten cold. It seems there are 2 Charles Witneys 1 married an Elizabeth Price and the other Sarah Elizabeth Fellows. I do know the son Charles John was a Coal Porter who died in Hoxton Asylum 1881 and from him I can trace my grandmother and then my father so I know he is the right one. So I will try again and try to sort out which Charles is which. Thank you for your help
Antoinette