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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: nicholpope on Thursday 17 October 19 19:10 BST (UK)

Title: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Thursday 17 October 19 19:10 BST (UK)
Hi

As a long shot to find more about John Stevens and Emily goldswain, I purchased the birth certificate of their first child. 

I am hoping to find this address in 1881 to see if there is any link between the occupants and the couple.

I have looked through all the records trying to find something similar to what is Written on the birth certificate but no luck.

A previous board my help with my history on this couple https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=602839.0

Can anyone help transcribe the address or help to find any possible link? Maybe electrol records from 1883?

Thanks



Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 October 19 21:04 BST (UK)
I don't know if it is me but I am having difficulty finding registered births in the name of Stevens, I picked out Grace Margaret Stevens in particular, no joy, perhaps it is me !!!

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 October 19 21:46 BST (UK)
So far I can only find registrations for
Emily  mothers maiden name Goldswain
Ada  and Elsie, twins
Harry
Elsie
All registered Camberwell

No marriage either so far

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: Bookbox on Thursday 17 October 19 22:12 BST (UK)
Can anyone help transcribe the address

1 Swiss Cottages, Hindmans Road
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: amondg on Thursday 17 October 19 22:16 BST (UK)
This is a confusing family
Lily in 1901 is she Lydia 1891
Agnes in 1901 is she/he Augustus 1911
Edith born 1883 is she Jane in 1891

Ethel May 1898 does she become Grace Margaret?

1901 census Ada is listed age 2 where is her twin Elsie? both are there 1911
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 October 19 22:20 BST (UK)
They certainly are confusing, no wonder I can't  find them all listed with mother's  maiden name, did wonder if either had been married before as they were slightly older parents, not by much though, bear in mind not everyone married in those days as much as we would have liked them to, if no marriage I wonder why?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: Bookbox on Thursday 17 October 19 22:23 BST (UK)
Can anyone help transcribe the address

1 Swiss Cottages, Hindmans Road

I can't find Swiss Cottages. Maybe it should have been 1 Smiths Cottages ?

1881 -- RG11/678 folio 32 page 58 (surnames ANDREWS, JOLLEY, MARKS)
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: amondg on Thursday 17 October 19 22:32 BST (UK)
Agree with address, google maps have Hindmans Road in East Dulwich
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 18 October 19 08:57 BST (UK)
Is this your family?

Cernsus 1911  at    144 *andcroft Rd   Camberwell, London
STEVENS    John       60y    labourer                 b. Cockney, Liverpool
STEVENS    Emily      57y                                 b. Great Marlow Buckinghamshire
STEVENS    John       23y    factory hand 
STEVENS    James     21y    shop assistant
STEVENS    Emily      18y    laundry hand
STEVENS    Augustus 16y
STEVENS    Grace      13y
STEVENS    Ada         11y
STEVENS    Elsie        11y
STEVENS    Harry        9y
STEVENS    Frances     7y
STEVENS    Charles     5y     
THOMPSON Julia         21y    visitor   

 birthplace for all children in East Dulwich, London, also for Julia THOMPSON, and I suspect that she has just been casually included.

Census 1901  at 54 Ulverscroft Rd Camberwell
STEVENS         John               49y                                    b. Liverpool
STEVENS         Emily              41y                                    b. Great Marlow  Buckinghamshire
STEVENS         Lily                 17y                                    b. East Dulwich, London
STEVENS         John                13y                                   b. East Dulwich, London
STEVENS         James              12y                                   b. East Dulwich, London
STEVENS         Emily                8y                                    b. East Dulwich, London
STEVENS         Agnes                6y                                   b. East Dulwich, London 
STEVENS        Grace Margaret   4y                                    b. East Dulwich, London
STEVENS        Ider                   2y                                    b. East Dulwich, London

Census 1891   at 54 Ulverscroft Rd Camberwell
STEVENS         John                34y                                b. Whitby Lam\ncashire
STEVENS         Emily               37y                                b. Great Marlow    Bucks
STEVENS         Jane                  8y                                b. Dulwich, London
STEVENS         Lydia                 6y                                 b. Dulwich, London
STEVENS         John                  3y                                 b. Dulwich, London
STEVENS         James                1y                                 b. Dulwich, London

Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 October 19 12:17 BST (UK)
I found all the same, change of names make it confusing,

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Friday 18 October 19 14:09 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone, will check in on all of these.

I too have been unable to locate many children, maybe they didn't register them?

Yes the census above are the family I am looking into. I also looked at every electoral role post 1911 and Emily disappeared from the address that stayed in the family after 1933 and John in 1919
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 October 19 14:12 BST (UK)
All babies had to be registered from about 1875, wonder if they were registered in a different name

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 October 19 14:30 BST (UK)
I have found a baptism for
Lillie Edith  Stevens
born 05/10/1884
baptized 05/11/1884
of John and Emily Stevens
of 6 Golden mews
at All Saints Notting Hill
occ Baker

Have you checked 1939 register, you mentioned disappeared, , perhaps she was living elsewhere

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 October 19 14:41 BST (UK)
You mentioned Emily had "disappeared" from 1933, what about this

Death 1933
aged      80
         ---------
born  1853,   give or take a year either side

Camberwell
ref 1d 568

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Friday 18 October 19 22:25 BST (UK)
How about this one for the missing twin elsie in 1901.. strangely struggling to trace this family too.

Cottage in Wright Nursery, Turner Road, Lee, Lewisham, London & Kent, England

Charles   Cooper   Head   Married   Male   33   1868   Nursery Gardener   High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England
Ellen   Cooper   Wife   Married   Female   43   1858   -   Aston Clinton, Buckinghamshire, England
Florence   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   10   1891   -   North Kensington, London, England
Elsie   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   7   1894   -   North Kensington, London, England
Edith   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   5   1896   -   North Kensington, London, England
Elsie   Stevens   Grand Daughter   -   Female   1   1900   -   North Kensington, London, England

Who's granddaughter however I do not know, Ellen cooper is younger than John just a couple more year older than Emily.
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Friday 18 October 19 22:29 BST (UK)
You mentioned Emily had "disappeared" from 1933, what about this

Death 1933
aged      80
         ---------
born  1853,   give or take a year either side

Camberwell
ref 1d 568

Louisa Maud

I suspect this one is correct, just no hard evidence as birth year seem to change on census.
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Friday 18 October 19 22:41 BST (UK)
I have found a baptism for
Lillie Edith  Stevens
born 05/10/1884
baptized 05/11/1884
of John and Emily Stevens
of 6 Golden mews
at All Saints Notting Hill
occ Baker

Have you checked 1939 register, you mentioned disappeared, , perhaps she was living elsewhere

Louisa Maud

Unfortunately this isn't our Lille as we have the birthday as 24/02/85, this is across the 39 census and a school admissions register.

I also have

Augustus: 12/07/95.
John: 29/01/88
James: 12/09/89
Emily: 26/12/92


Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Friday 18 October 19 22:45 BST (UK)
Can anyone help transcribe the address

1 Swiss Cottages, Hindmans Road

I can't find Swiss Cottages. Maybe it should have been 1 Smiths Cottages ?

1881 -- RG11/678 folio 32 page 58 (surnames ANDREWS, JOLLEY, MARKS)

Oh, didn't see Swiss in there, good shout but like you say unfortunately not there. Could be Smith's. I had thought "sevies" but again not there. But interestingly a surname like some of the other house names.
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 19 October 19 13:03 BST (UK)
Sometimes we have to splash out for certificates  to prove or disprove information  we think is right, for the cost of a death certificate you would  get her address and next of kin who may have registered her birth.

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 19 October 19 13:52 BST (UK)


your quote
How about this one for the missing twin elsie in 1901.. strangely struggling to trace this family too.

Cottage in Wright Nursery, Turner Road, Lee, Lewisham, London & Kent, England

Charles   Cooper   Head   Married   Male   33   1868   Nursery Gardener   High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England
Ellen   Cooper   Wife   Married   Female   43   1858   -   Aston Clinton, Buckinghamshire, England
Florence   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   10   1891   -   North Kensington, London, England
Elsie   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   7   1894   -   North Kensington, London, England
Edith   Warner   Step Daughter   -   Female   5   1896   -   North Kensington, London, England
Elsie   Stevens   Grand Daughter   -   Female   1   1900   -   North Kensington, London, England


ABOVE FAMILY

Florence Warner Step daughter is Florence Ruth Warner born 1891
Elsie Warner is Elsie May Warner born 1893
Edith is Edith Emily Warner 1895
all above MMN Gurney all born North Kensington

Elsie Stevens G/dau is Elsie Alice Olive Stephens MMN Warner born 1899 North Kensington

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 19 October 19 14:49 BST (UK)
Baptism
All Saints Notting Hill
Elsie Alice Olive Stevens
06/08/1899
of Frederick George and Alice
13 Stoneleigh St
Occ  Chints glazer


Marriage


St Helens Kensington
24/12/1898
Frederick George Stevens aged 21 Chintz Glazer of 491 Latimer Road father Alfred, Billiard maker
to
Alice Warner 18 father Henry Warner
witnesses George Henry Warner and Millie Shepherd

I believe that at a later date Alice died and he married
1902  St Olave
Frederick George Stevens to Florence Marina Greening
3 births found so far
Ethel Florence Stevens MMN Green 1904 Kensington
Percival Lionel Stevens  MMN Greening 1906 Kensington
Horace Frederick 1909 MMN Greening born Portslade Sussex,

Might take you some time to fathom this out but I believe all of these Stevens males are related,

Louisa Maud

Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 19 October 19 15:50 BST (UK)
Just to complete the marriages
Frederick George Stevens age 25 states he is a batchelor ? chintz glazer father Alfred Frederick Dec
to
Florence Marina Greening aged 20  father William Charles
at St Ann's Bermondsey
on 21/09/1902
address of both 79 Galleywall Road
witnesses J fryatt and L Watts

Greening was MMN of Ethel Florence, Percival Lionel and Horace Frederick

I also believe that Elizabeth Gurney is related  (MMN to Warner children )


Louisa Maud
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 19 October 19 15:58 BST (UK)
Baptism
All Saints Notting Hill
Elsie Alice Olive Stevens
06/08/1899
of Frederick George and Alice
13 Stoneleigh St
Occ  Chints glazer


possible death Elsie Alice Olive Stevens
(married D Pawson 1922 Southwark)

Elsie Alice O PAWSON born 3 June 1899
Death quarter   3 Death year   1981
District   Worthing County   Sussex Volume   18 Page   2260
Title: Re: Stevens/goldswaine
Post by: nicholpope on Saturday 19 October 19 18:36 BST (UK)
Hi

So from this Elsie with cooper/Warner’s is not Elsie to John and Emily. So Elsie is still missing, is it likely she was just missed from the census?

But Louisa, you do think there is a connection? What makes you think this?

Thanks again for all your support