RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mme marple on Monday 07 October 19 15:48 BST (UK)
-
Hello anyone who can give guidance with research after 8 years of being stuck.
I have an Elizabeth Bamford in Tipton Staffordshire Uk who gave birth to
Esther Elizabeth Ann Bamford on 22 Aug 1864 no father
Esther Elizabeth Ann Bamford is baptized in same parish on 1 Jan 1865 - father now given first name Samuel but his name is barred and he is not given a profession.
Then Esther disappears until her wedding to a boatman William Johnson Middlewich, Cheshire in 1864. She has now become Esther Ann BANFORD and her father is Henry BANFORD.
In family history she was given away and raised by the Williams family. A lot of family worked the canals around Staffordshire. Would love to know more about her mother Elizabeth . Know lots about Esther after her marriage but nothing before ..
Any ideas gratefully received. Many thanks
-
Hi and welcome to Rootschat...
1861
Elizabeth is living wither her Uncle...born West Bromwich and living in Tipton
Joseph Bamford....Head 39 Butcher
Hannah Banford 45 Wife
Elizabeth Bamford...Daughter 10
Unice Bamford...Sister married 30
Thomas Bamford...Son 8
William Bamford...Son 6
Elizabeth Bamford...Niece 18 Servant
Carol
-
well thank you for your super reactive info!
-
1851:
Tipton
Sidney Bamford 27...Forge Man
Esther Bamford Forge Man's wife 27
Jane Bamford..Daughter 9
Elizabeth Bamford... Daughter 7 Born Wednesbury
Viner Bamford... Daughter 3
Census return very faint
Carol
-
there are quite a few Elizabeth/Eliza Bamfords and its trying to decide which is the right one...
-
I can't find her in 1871 census so I think this could be her
Elizabeth Bamford
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1844
Marriage Date: 29 Jan 1867
Marriage Place: Almondbury, All Hallows, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Almondbury, All Hallows
Father: William Bamford
Spouse: William Harttey
Carol
-
there are quite a few Elizabeth/Eliza Bamfords and its trying to decide which is the right one...
Too much of a coincidence that her Mother is called Esther..so I think it a good fit.
Carol
-
I too had found Esther and Sidney and also worked on the assumption that Esther was a family name but only now you've suggested the same thing do I feel like celebrating.
I know its a stupid next question but I suppose that means all the other Eliz Bamfords are other people..
-
Hi
You may want to amend the marriage date to 1884
Then Esther disappears until her wedding to a boatman William Johnson Middlewich, Cheshire in 1864. She has now become Esther Ann BANFORD and her father is Henry BANFORD
-
Possible
1844 S Quarter WEST BROMWICH Volume 18 Page 532
Elizabeth Bamford MMN Ralphs
Marriage for Parents http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php
1844 Tipton, St.Martin (Pepper Box)
Thomas Sidney Bamford
Esther Ralphs
-
Hm. I wonder why a lass from Tipton, in Staffordshire, would marry in Almondbury, Yorkshire, about 120 miles away. I'd be reluctant to assume that is the right Elizabeth, given the distance.
There was a strong non-conformist streak in the W Midlands and I think that Esther, being an Old Testament name, wasn't all that uncommon there. So although it's tempting to assume that this is the correct family, again I'd be inclined to hold fire until further proof comes up (if possible!)
-
Hm. I wonder why a lass from Tipton, in Staffordshire, would marry in Almondbury, Yorkshire, about 120 miles away. I'd be reluctant to assume that is the right Elizabeth, given the distance.
Maybe a young woman who was living with her Aunt and Uncle who didn't want an unmarried Mother living with them.
I will leave it up to the OP to decide what records she wants to keep, just in case there proves to be a link.
Carol
Carol
-
yes thank you, I do have their wedding certificate so that is one of the sure facts I have.
Does anyone know how to look up records for canal people, if i want to try and find out something of Esther's missing years between birth and marriage....
-
I almost dream about this family at night, they go round and round my brain as I find it so frustrating the trail goes cold, but you must have your own loose ends so thanks for finding the time to think about mine! :)
-
re records- using Google there are other links but have a look at these
https://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html
https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/archive/index.php/f-196.html
-
Thanks Carole, the second link is particularly helpful.
-
There's a forum here on rootschat which specialises in travelling folk, including boatmen and their families.
-
This may help
http://canalrivertrustwaterfront.org.uk/heritage/waterway-genealogy/
-
Very interesting links again.
Many thanks
-
I've had so much new info to go at thanks very much everyone.
The 1861 census with Elizabeth niece is great and totally new.
I'm hoping as a butcher I should be able to find William by some trade documents and then try and sort the families out a bit because they all seem to have got a bit muddled up.
-
Marriage;
23 Feb 1856, St James, Wednesbury
JOSEPH Bamford, 34, Widower, Puddler, Father THOMAS Bamford a Puddler
Hannah McGUIRE, 40, Widow, Father SAMUEL Bamford a Butcher
Witnesses Samuel and Unice Bamford
Earlier Marriage to Harriet MASON 31 Jul 1843, both Widowed age 22/23
His Father Thomas a Puddler and hers Joseph PRICE a Horse dealer
1st Marriage to Ellen LANGLEY 10 May 1841
ELLEN buried 08 Mar 1843 age 22
1841 Census Joseph is living with the Langleys
Its strange as his Wife is down as Ellen Langley even though they married before Census date 6 June.
1861 Census
So Elizabeth 1843 may be the Neice of either Joseph or Hannah as the were both Bamfords at Birth.
Trish :)
-
SAMUEL Bamford, Father THOMAS married Eunice MORRIS 16 Oct 1848
-
Oh my word all these Bamfords marrying Bamfords ::) and having such busy personal lives .. no wonder its hard to keep track of them.
I've read that puddlers had a very short life expectancy and a flu virus wiped out thousands, I guess the survivors just kept going remarrying.
I'm wondering if the 1871 census which I haven't personally seen there is
Sidney Bamford and his second wife Mary Ann (ex Kelly/Kelley) they are living in Tipton with his and her children. After Thomas Bamford 13 son Tipton, the next name written was too difficult to read but the age fits with the elusive Esther and it is marked as a daughter (even though it would be a granddaughter..) Could anyone with access to the census check it out for me please?
-
Trish thank you so much for all this info. Its all very exciting if slightly confusing like doing a massive jigsaw puzzle of the sky !! Very satisfying when you get a bit that fits into another though.
-
Do you mean this family:
Name Age
Sidney Bamford 48
Mary Ann Bamford 48
Hannah Bamford 16
Thomas Bamford 13
Asenah Bamford 6/12
Thomas Kelly 16
James Kelly 13
Enoch Kelly 5
Mary Ann is a bit old to have a 6 month old Daughter but she could be Hannah's Daughter?
Carol
-
I think this is her:
Births Dec 1870
BAMFORD Asnah Dudley 6c 30
Carol
-
Oh I hadn't though about Hannah..There goes my brilliant idea!
What an unusal name though, its sounds very exotic for Tipton!
Thanks for checking that out though.
-
oh on top of that I thought that 6/12 was 6 and a half years old therefore matching Esther.
-
I think this is her:
Births Dec 1870
BAMFORD Asnah Dudley 6c 30
Carol
Mother's maiden name is Bradshaw
-
Esther Elizabeth Ann Bamford on 22 Aug 1864 no father
Esther Elizabeth Ann Bamford is baptized in same parish on 1 Jan 1865 - father now given first name Samuel but his name is barred and he is not given a profession.
Then Esther disappears until her wedding to a boatman William Johnson Middlewich, Cheshire in 1864. She has now become Esther Ann BANFORD and her father is Henry BANFORD.
I
When did Esther actually marry?
Carol
-
esther married 8 june 1884 st helens church Middlewich, cheshire
father Henry Bamford boatman
witnesses thomas carr
elizabeth johnson
nelly cork
samuel on baptism cert could be real name of father
henry could be name of person she considered her father having had no contact with mother seemingly from birth. or both could be invented to save face?
she could never read or write so she wouldnt know what was on her baptism cert
-
Possibility:
1871
Estimated birth year: 1865
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Welhampton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Household schedule number: 106
Piece: 2940
Folio: 37
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
James Farren 65
Sarah Farren 61
Enoch Farren 9
Esther Williams
Edited: Don't think so
Carol
-
This is more likely:
1871
Elizth E Williams
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: 1864
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Tipton Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Tipton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Tipton
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 206
Piece: 3000
Folio: 49
Page Number: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
Maria Williams 45
Henry Williams 20
George Williams 16
Eunice Williams 14
William Williams 13
Elizth E Williams 7
Carol
-
OMGoodness yes!
is that a boat census ?
-
No...Living at 23, Keelinge Street.
Maria is a widow born in Salop, Son Henry is a Furnace Keeper born in Wednesbury.
Carol
-
I really think this is it - I'm in shock!
you have made my Mum's year!
Esther is her grandmother that she has heard so much about (a very charamatic figure it would appear) and she's been trying to trace her for about 15 years without a computer.
its absolutely amazing that you've found her.
-
1881:
Elizabeth Williams
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Tipton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: West Bromwich
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 9 All Saints St
Education:
Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub registration district: West Bromwich North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2850
Folio: 110
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Evan Williams 26 Coal Miner
Louisa Williams 25
Samuel Williams 6
Maria Williams 2
Elizabeth Williams 16
Maria Williams Mother 55
Carol
-
I really think this is it - I'm in shock!
you have made my Mum's year!
Esther is her grandmother that she has heard so much about (a very charamatic figure it would appear) and she's been trying to trace her for about 15 years without a computer.
its absolutely amazing that you've found her.
It is the best fit so far ;D
Carol
-
Sorry but I don't think it's correct.
Working back
Maria Wilkes married George Williams Dec 1846 Wellington Salop vol 18 page 270
Louisa who married Evan Williams was the daughter of Maria and George
Evan and Louisa married 1873 St. Mark Tipton
Birth registrations from GRO
Louisa Williams Mother's Maiden Name Wilkes
1856 Sept quarter West Bromwich vol 06B Page 600 ( This could be Eunice on 1871)
Elizabeth Ellen Williams Mother's Maiden Name Wilkes
1864 Dec quarter Dudley vol 06C Page 44
-
Yes kd....I had my doubts about the 1881 census one too...just thought I would throw it into the mix.
Carol
-
hi Im coming back to you after a quite a while, I found I'd got completely lost in my searches!
I was just wondering if you could let me know where you found this info because id like to investigate a bit further but don't seem to be able to find this marriage on the records.
Elizabeth Bamford
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1844
Marriage Date: 29 Jan 1867
Marriage Place: Almondbury, All Hallows, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Almondbury, All Hallows
Father: William Bamford
Spouse: William Harttey
Carol
thanks