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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: dhmm on Friday 04 October 19 16:30 BST (UK)
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In 19th century Britain when a child died in infancy it was common for the next child of the same gender to be given the same name. However I have a case where the parents appear to have named two boys the same even though the first one was still alive, and there were several intervening boys.
Of course I cannot be absolutely certain that a) the first one didn’t die, or b) that they’re different parents, but I am 95% sure that’s what happened - I have the death of the first one many years later, and the parents names are not that common.
Has anyone else come across this situation? If it really is extremely unusual then I think I have to conclude they must be different sets of parents.
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I have seen a few examples of this in very large families, usually where the older one was already likely to have left home by the time the younger was born.
What is the age gap between the two with the same name?
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I have exactly this in my tree.
My husbands great uncle was known all his life by a nick name. My husband was always told the story that he wasn’t expected to survive so he was baptised and registered quickly. He was named after his father, his elder brother who was 15 years older was also named after his father. The elder died in 1970s the younger 1990s brothers lived to their late 70’s.
I have copies of both birth certificates as I couldn’t believe what I found.
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One of my ancestors was named Daniel. He had a wife named Mary Ann, a son named Daniel Edward and two daughters named Mary Annice and Mary Emmeline . . . for some reason the children were all known by their middle names ;D
They had previously lost their first two children and 'recycled' their names for the next two.
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One of my grandfathers had a brother called Albert and another brother called Bertie.
Martin
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Yes Bertie seems to have been regarded as a separate name back then. I have sisters called Elizabeth and Eliza, same applies I guess, you wouldn't blink at sisters called Lisa and Beth nowadays.
But the question is not about this, nor about same name but differing middle name, which I have too. I also have people using the same names again after a remarriage - again a fair age gap. But two identical names to the same parents - very odd!
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I have seen a few examples of this in very large families, usually where the older one was already likely to have left home by the time the younger was born.
What is the age gap between the two with the same name?
There's 4 years between the two boys with the same name. Actually there are three in total - first a John born 1783 and a second John born 1784, so I assume that's just the regular situation where the first died and the next male child took his name. Then an Alexander in 1786 and then another John in 1788.
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Were they Scottish by any chance? Some of my Scots seem to have applied family naming patterns very rigidly, so that if the naming pattern called for the same name again (e.g. both grandfathers were called John) then they used John again. In real life they probably used nicknames for one or both.
Otherwise they sound exceptionally unimaginative as to naming!
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I have a similar situation in my family. Two boys called Thomas, born about 10 years apart in the early 1800s, no sign of the first one having died. I've found both of them in the 1851 census. I'm descended from the younger Thomas. At first I assumed that they must belong to two different couples with the same name, but if so they didn't marry or die in the same village or any of the villages nearby. I'm now checking marriage witnesses for both Thomases and their siblings to see if there is any crossover.
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Were they Scottish by any chance? Some of my Scots seem to have applied family naming patterns very rigidly, so that if the naming pattern called for the same name again (e.g. both grandfathers were called John) then they used John again. In real life they probably used nicknames for one or both.
Otherwise they sound exceptionally unimaginative as to naming!
Yes, they were Scottish! That's an interesting idea that hadn't occurred to me. Unfortunately I don't (yet) know enough about their parents/grandparents to prove it one way or the other but in the following generations the family certainly followed the Scots naming tradition.
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Were they Scottish by any chance? Some of my Scots seem to have applied family naming patterns very rigidly, so that if the naming pattern called for the same name again (e.g. both grandfathers were called John) then they used John again. In real life they probably used nicknames for one or both.
Otherwise they sound exceptionally unimaginative as to naming!
Anyone following the Scottish naming pattern is being exceptionally unimaginative and incredibly rigid, surely?
Did no-one think, oh, what a good idea, lets call everyone in the family John, because both grandfathers are John and the father is John, so just to really confuse matters so that no-one knows who is being referred to, lets call all the sons John?
Why??
Read an obituary of someone who died in September. She was great-grandmother to Bracken, Iona, Aria, Malachai, Flynn, Berry, Ash, Rudy, Max, Milo, Taigdh, and Norma. One may dislike some of those names, but they do not show a lack of imagination.
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I have a family where the first child was John William. He died in infancy and a subsequent child was also called John William. So far, so normal. But when John William (the second) was 13, and still definitely alive, they had another son called John Henry (which was also the father's name). So 2 boys and the father all called John at the same time in the same household. I thought that maybe one or both sons used the middle name, but the 1891 census shows them both at home with their widowed mother, and both called John.
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I have it where two consecutive boys were called Arthur (well, it was in Germany and one was spelt Artur, the second Arthur). Both survived. The youngest was known as Charlie or Karl.
I've also got it with two Johns. One was the oldest and one the youngest. This was in 1870 and 1890 and they died in the 1910s and 1950s respectively.
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I have 2 Johns in my family tree, mid 1500s. They were born about 13 years apart and lived to a good age. They were recorded as John the elder and John the younger in the parish registers and in wills.
Seems very strange (by today's standards) and confusing. Why would you do it?
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Was going to query what happened if 2 children of exactly the same name were mentioned in wills.
Thanks for answering before I even asked.