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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: wbutcheruk2 on Wednesday 02 October 19 16:25 BST (UK)
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I'm helping a friend trying to discover more of their tree and ancestors.
They are trying to establish the parents of Hilary Jean Paxman.
Information we have found so far:
Born 16 Dec 1944 (According to her death record) - We cannot find a birth record.
Died Jan, Feb, Mar 1985 (Aged 40) Southend on Sea, Essex.
1st Marriage Jul, Aug, Sep 1964 Southend on Sea, Essex. (4 children)
2nd Marriage Jan, Feb, Mar 1973 Chelmsford, Essex. (2 children)
This is all we know and can find. We haven't managed to find a birth record which is why we are struggling to find her parents names.
Any help most appreciated as we know nothing more about her.
Edited , living ?
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If her husbands are still living you will need to remove their names. One of the marriage certificates should name her father
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Think you mean born 16.12.1944
Have you considered she may not have been born in England or Wales?
If your friend is one if her children she should know where his/her mother was born
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There is also the possibility her birth was registered under a different surname and her mother then married Mr Paxman
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Or adoption
Louisa Maud
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Did she have any brothers or sisters we might be able to trace her that way?.Don't mention if living
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I am led to believe both husbands have died which is why i have named them. Yes born 1944 my mistype. The person im helping has siblings and they do not know Hilary's birth location or her parents names. I think a marriage certificate may be the way forward. We also don't know if Hilary had siblings but believe her maiden name is Paxman as the children records have maiden name as this.
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I think a marriage cert would be a good idea
Louisa Maud
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Hi, did Hilary have a female sibling that your friend is aware of.
John
Ignore---question already asked in previous post.
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There are no deaths recorded for either husband so it may be as well to remove their names from your post as a precaution
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I have removed first names. Should i remove surname also?
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Yes you should
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Any idea of an address she lived at in Southend area?
Louisa Maud
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Please see my reply 2. Sorry to bring it up again but she had 6 children - 2 were 19 & 20 when she died. 2 husbands both survived her. Surely some of the children must know something about their mothers background?
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What about Packman ?
Louisa Maud
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No birth for a Hilary Packman Dec qtr 1944 - March qtr 1945
There is a birth under Patman but all marriage/children's births show mmn as Paxman
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REMOVED
Louisa Maud
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She married 1970 and could still be alive so name needs to be removed
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She died 1985 age 40 original post
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Purchase the first marriage certificate 1964 vol 4a page 2453 Southend.
Let us know the fathers name and we can help from there
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I do realize Among that her date of death shows she was born 1944/5 but as the originator seems not to know much of her history the Packman surname and difference by 2 years of her birth was just supposition on my part, plus, she was a Hilary J, we will have to wait and see now
Louisa Maud
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I will see what a certificate brings. Thanks everyone for suggestions.
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Would it be possible in the meantime to ask your friend to have a chat with her siblings, aunts and uncles, or any living relative.you never know what you might find out which could be helpful
Just a suggestion
Louisa Maud
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OK so haven't ordered a marriage certificate as yet, but it has come to light that she was definitely adopted as we have an official adoption certificate.
IT states her DOB as 16th Dec 1944 and she was adopted 15 March 1946 by a Dorothy Greenborough Paxman. Which we know died in 1982. It says an address in Leigh on Sea, Essex.
So with this information i'm not sure her fathers name will be on a marriage certificate. Where do we go to find adoption information?
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Who issued the adoption certificate you have
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We might not find her actual birth registration if she had her names change by adoption.
One step forward as they say but I am sorry I can't help you with adoption papers you need someone with more knowledge than me
Good luck
Louisa Maud
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These may give some suggestions
https://www.gov.uk/adoption-records
https://www.gov.uk/adoption-records/the-adoption-contact-register
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Given at the general Register office, Somerset house, london.
Application Number A.C.R. 78819
Entry No. 31711
Date of order: 28th Feb 1946 - The juvernile court for the county borough of southend on sea.
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I am no expert on adoption but her original adoption file should have details of her birth mother etc.
You have not responded to either of my questions re her 6 children but I suspect they are the only ones who can apply for that type of information
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Hi. Sorry didn't reply as was trying to edit post to remove the husbands names. None of the children seem to know anymore than this adoption certificate. They are not in contact with second husband. I think I will have to advise them to seek the first husband and the for the adoption records.
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If there is no contact with either of the husbands the children could apply for the full records themselves.
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Very strange.
Births June qtr 1893
Dorothy Greenhough Paxman West Ham 4a 192
Her death reg gives 1883 as her birthyear but the 1939 register says 1893. The death reg shows her middle name as Greenhow
That means she was 53 when she adopted Hilary and a single woman adopting a 2yr old child
She left a will and the probate entry confirms her as Greenhough and she left over £30,000
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar
You may want to consider downloading a copy of her will
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Yes i found this out last night too. Now the probate with reference is im guessing what you need to obtain a copy of the will. You mention about downloading a copy. How do i go about doing this? Any any idea of the cost?
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There is a family tree on Ancestry with photographs.
Dorothy's parents seem to have died in 1941 withing a couple of months of each other
Same address in Southend pops up frequently
Louisa Maud
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Thank you. I will try and find it and msg them.
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Yes i found this out last night too. Now the probate with reference is im guessing what you need to obtain a copy of the will. You mention about downloading a copy. How do i go about doing this? Any any idea of the cost?
Use this website which is the official one, it will cost £1.50
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
There is quite a delay on them at the moment as they recently reduced the charge from £10 which resulted in lots of people ordering lots of wills.
You will be notified when it is ready for download though it is worth you keep checking.
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I have been wondering whether she was adopted by a relative due to Dorothy's age and the fact she was single. There is one possibility which does not quite tie in date wise but may be worth looking at.
Dorothy had a brother Stanley who married Daisy Matthews, they had two children that I can see. One of them was Betty. I am wondering whether Hilary was actually born in December 1943 and not 1944. Betty died in March qtr 1944.
Births Sep qtr 1917
Paxman Betty mmn Matthews
Rochford 4a 1022
Deaths Mar 1944
Paxman Betty age 26
Uxbridge 3a 81
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Well that was easy enough to do. Just got to wait to see it. This will be most useful. I wish they would do something like this for certificates for family history research, much better cost than £9 a time.
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I think i see where you might be going with this. Maybe Betty's daughter. The adoption certificate states her birth date as 16 Dec 1944 which ties up with the death record entry results. But i agree it does seem unusual for a spinster woman in her 50s to adopt unless related or a close friend or godmother maybe. None of her children speak to her second husband and the first husband i have now been told has died a few years back. This leaves no one else to ask, other than this family tree link on ancestry. Tricky one this.
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There is a facility for some birth and death certificates from the GRO as downloads they are £7 I think, I have not ordered for a while. This is not available for marriages.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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If Betty Paxman died March qtr 1944 she cannot be the mother of a child born December 1944
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If Betty Paxman died March qtr 1944 she cannot be the mother of a child born December 1944
I realise that Carole, I only posted it to show that I had looked at Betty as a relation of Dorothy. As the date was only a year out I thought it worth mentioning, errors do sometimes happen on these documents. :)
I think that the family need to pursue the adoption records.
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Pity Essex electoral rolls aren't online to check who lived at the address that keeps popping up, up to 1939 and after 1945,
I thought I would just check births in the Southend area for the year stated was her birth and December quarter, what a hoot??, more to the point, what an idiot I am?, so many couldn't possibly check the all
Louisa Maud