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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: EH71 on Friday 27 September 19 22:20 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Friday 27 September 19 22:20 BST (UK)
Hiya, I am currently researching my family history and was just wondering if anyone has info on James Hill and his family.

I already know that he was born in Worcestershire, married Louisa Sandford in 1887 and died in Bedwellty in Wales.

I have the names of most of his children that appear on the census's during this period but if anyone has any info specifically on Myra Edith Hill (b. 1890) or Ellen Hill (b.1888) that would be fantastic!

Thanks  :)

Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 27 September 19 22:32 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat

Have you looked for marriages for Myra & Ellen?  www.freebmd.org.uk

When did the family move to Wales?

Were any if the children born in Wales or were they all b Worcs

What year did James die

Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 27 September 19 22:45 BST (UK)
They are in Glamorgan in 1901.  Myra is shown as Edith but Ellen is not with them

In 1901 there is a son William Henry aged 11 b Worcs who is not shown on the 1891 entry
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Friday 27 September 19 22:46 BST (UK)
Welcome from me too.

Possible death for Ellen as Ellen Elizabeth Hill aged 8, Jun qtr 1896 Pontypridd.

Buried 4 May 1896 at St Mabon, Llanfabon, Glamorganshire. Abode: Mountain Ash.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Friday 27 September 19 22:50 BST (UK)
Ellen’s birth registration is indexed on the GRO Online as Ellen Eliza Hill, mother’s maiden name Landford [sic], Mar qtr 1888 Martley 6c 267.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 27 September 19 22:51 BST (UK)
Marriage 1912 on freebmd in Pontypridd - Edith Hill to Charles William Bryer

An Edith Bryer died Uxbridge 1938 aged 49

IGNORE above. - wrong Edith as per 1939 register
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Friday 27 September 19 22:52 BST (UK)
Also: William Henry Hill mmn Landford, Jun qtr 1889 Martley 6c 275.

Sandford/Landford would be easily confused by a transcriber.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 27 September 19 23:02 BST (UK)
If you already know how many children this couple had - take a look at the 1911 entry for Louisa to compare the number of children born and number died

James died before 1911
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: Annette7 on Saturday 28 September 19 04:03 BST (UK)
There appears to have been 13 children and 3 died:

Ellen Eliza b.1888 died 1896
William Henry b.1889
Myra Edith b.1890
Francis George b.1892
Annie Louisa b.1894
Lily bc.1896 can't find birth registration
James b.1897
John Thomas b.1899 (names switched round on census)
Ethel Jane b.1900
Richard Idris b.1902, died 1902 (death as Richard Edward)
Percy Richard b.1903, died 1905
Emlyn Charles b.1905
Gladys bc.1909 can't find birth registration

James Hill baptised 2/7/1867 Grimley, son of Thomas and Elizabeth.

Thomas Hill married Elizabeth Cresswell 28/10/1856 Grimley.

Annette
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 05:32 BST (UK)
Death for James Hill aged 40, Dec qtr 1908 Bedwellty. So Louisa was widowed when pregnant with Gladys May (birth reg Jun qtr 1909 Bedwellty).
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 05:39 BST (UK)
Possible baptism for “Lily”:

Llanwonno, Glamorgan

2 May 1896

Lilian Hill, daughter of James (a collier) and Louisa, of 5 Catherine St, Aberdare Junction.

N.B. This is only two days before the burial found for Ellen Elizabeth in a different but nearby parish I think.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Saturday 28 September 19 20:37 BST (UK)
Ellen’s birth registration is indexed on the GRO Online as Ellen Eliza Hill, mother’s maiden name Landford [sic], Mar qtr 1888 Martley 6c 267.

firstly thanks for helping!

I found that registration too but I am 100% sure the mothers correct maiden name is Sandford - is it possible it was written down incorrectly on the birth certificate?

thanks
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 20:58 BST (UK)
Ellen’s birth registration is indexed on the GRO Online as Ellen Eliza Hill, mother’s maiden name Landford [sic], Mar qtr 1888 Martley 6c 267.

firstly thanks for helping!

I found that registration too but I am 100% sure the mothers correct maiden name is Sandford - is it possible it was written down incorrectly on the birth certificate?

thanks

As I said earlier it has probably just been mistranscribed in the indexing process.  An old-fashioned manuscript S is easily mistaken for an L. You will have seen that the same has happened for William Henry’s birth registration.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: philipsearching on Saturday 28 September 19 21:48 BST (UK)
Extending the list compiled by Annette7 to show children on censuses with mother Louisa (going by transcripts on FamilySearch)

Ellen Eliza b 1888  On 1891 census  d 1896
William Henry b 1889  On 1901 & 1911 census
Myra Edith b 1890  On 1891 & 1901 census
Francis George b 1892  On 1901 & 1911 census
Annie Louisa b 1894  On 1901 census
Lily b c1896 On 1901 & 1911 census
James b 1897  On 1901 census
John Thomas b 1899  On 1901 & 1911 census
Ethel Jane b 1900  On 1901 & 1911 census
Richard Idris b 1902, d 1902
Percy Richard b.1903, d 1905
Emlyn Charles b.1905  On 1911 census
Gladys b c1909  On 1911 census


ADDED - the legal age for marriage was not raised to 16 until 1929 so it is possible that Myra Edith and Annie Louisa were married before 1911.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:30 BST (UK)
Wow he had a big family then  :o

Is it possible to find out what happened to Myra Edith Hill after 1901?

also is Myra written down on the 1901 census as Edith?, Because unless i'm missing something it defiantly doesn't say Myra on it

Extending the list compiled by Annette7 to show children on censuses with mother Louisa (going by transcripts on FamilySearch)


Myra Edith b 1890  On 1891 & 1901 census
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:35 BST (UK)
She is Edith in 1901.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:43 BST (UK)
just wondering-  how can you know that for certain?

not saying you're wrong, i'm just wondering why they would've put Edith rather than Myra
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:47 BST (UK)
It was her middle name. You can see from her age that it is the same person.

Experience shows that it is very common in 19th century records for people to treat their given names as interchangeable, alternate between them, switch them around etc.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:49 BST (UK)
It was her middle name. You can see from her age that it is the same person.

Experience shows that it is very common in 19th century records for people to treat their given names as interchangeable, alternate between them, switch them around etc.

Ah that makes more sense now thank you!

Any ideas what happened to her after 1901?
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Saturday 28 September 19 22:53 BST (UK)
She hasn’t been found yet.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 28 September 19 23:05 BST (UK)
It was her middle name. You can see from her age that it is the same person.

Experience shows that it is very common in 19th century records for people to treat their given names as interchangeable, alternate between them, switch them around etc.

Especially if there was someone else in the family known by that name- an aunt or mum for example.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Saturday 28 September 19 23:56 BST (UK)
She hasn’t been found yet.

I think i've found Myra and Louise on the 1939 Register still living in Monmouthshire - Myra appears to have married and louise is living with her - Ive attached a link to the picture on my Google Drive (it was too big to upload to here haha)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GQr4Zo1SGiKSfmOaQH5dVVm4jN4DiGni

I might be completely wrong though ???
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 29 September 19 04:44 BST (UK)
I think you are correct even though dob may be suspect.

On FreeBMD you can see three McGuire / Hill births in Bedwelty district

Haven’t found marriage though under Maguire or McGuire

Her death. Dob varying again.

Deaths Dec 1972   
MAGUIRE    MYRA EDITH    5DE1888    BEDWELLTY    8C   326

Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: Annette7 on Sunday 29 September 19 13:05 BST (UK)
Marriage Dec.qtr.1921 Bedwelty - Daniel J. Maguire and Edith Hill. 

So she married in just her second name of Edith.

FamilySearch 1911 index shows Edith Hill working as a Laundry Maid in a hospital in Bedwelty.

Clearly her birthday was 5 December (1939 register and death entry) but correct year of birth was 1890 (reg'd Dec.1890).

I note on the 1939 register page posted here that 2 of her brothers in same road - George Francis at no.53 and William Henry at no.49. 

Annette
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Sunday 29 September 19 16:38 BST (UK)
Marriage Dec.qtr.1921 Bedwelty - Daniel J. Maguire and Edith Hill. 

I note on the 1939 register page posted here that 2 of her brothers in same road - George Francis at no.53 and William Henry at no.49. 

Annette

Ah so they are - good spot, thanks!
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Sunday 29 September 19 17:44 BST (UK)
Marriage Dec.qtr.1921 Bedwelty - Daniel J. Maguire and Edith Hill. 

So she married in just her second name of Edith.

FamilySearch 1911 index shows Edith Hill working as a Laundry Maid in a hospital in Bedwelty.

Clearly her birthday was 5 December (1939 register and death entry) but correct year of birth was 1890 (reg'd Dec.1890).

I note on the 1939 register page posted here that 2 of her brothers in same road - George Francis at no.53 and William Henry at no.49. 

Annette

Are you able to link the 1911 census record that she's in please? I can't find it haha

Thanks
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: Annette7 on Sunday 29 September 19 19:42 BST (UK)
I'm no good at coming up with links I'm afraid - however, from 1911 index on FamilySearch she is easily found in Bedwelty as Edith Hill - on Ancestry she has been transcribed as 'Eorth' rather than Edith.

Annette
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Sunday 29 September 19 20:40 BST (UK)
Not to worry, I've found it now  :D

I'm no good at coming up with links I'm afraid - however, from 1911 index on FamilySearch she is easily found in Bedwelty as Edith Hill - on Ancestry she has been transcribed as 'Eorth' rather than Edith.

Annette
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Sunday 29 September 19 21:00 BST (UK)
So to summarise, We've found Myra Edith Hill in 1881, 1891, 1901, 1911 and 1939

I think I've found her death index(?)

MYRA EDITH MAGUIRE b.05/12/1890   d. OCT/NOV/DEC 1972
BEDWELLTY MONMOUTHSHIRE
VOL 8C PAGE 326

Everything seems to match other than the fact her birth year is 2 years out - is it possible it was just a mistake?

thanks ;D
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 29 September 19 21:47 BST (UK)
Why do you say it is 2 years out? It is a perfect match for her Dec qtr 1890 birth registration.
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: EH71 on Sunday 29 September 19 21:57 BST (UK)
Why do you say it is 2 years out? It is a perfect match for her Dec qtr 1890 birth registration.

Its two years out because that should say 05/12/1888 but the 1891 census suggests she was born in 1890

I got my numbers muddled up- my bad haha
Title: Re: Looking for info on James Hill and his many kids (1868-1908)
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 29 September 19 22:01 BST (UK)
Yes I see.  Well if you take the birthdate as stated in the 1939 Register and the birthdate as stated at death, the truth appears to be exactly halfway between them! As you say, 1890 rather than 1888 or 1892.

Very common to find dates a year or two (or more) out.