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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Ngatimoti71 on Thursday 26 September 19 09:18 BST (UK)
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I am interested in any information on James McKinney 1790-1885. I believe his wife was Elizabeth. Also his father George. A descendant James McKinney and his wife Christina Murrie with one child immigrated to New Zealand in 1879. Ngatimoti 71.
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Welcome to RootsChat
You have posted in Compleated Look up Requests, click on the Report to Moderator bottom right of your post to have your thread moved to Antrim board.
Meanwhile there is a death of a James McKinney in Carrickfergus in 1885 but his age is given as 76 so born c1809, he has a son David
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06291/4802937.pdf
Could this be your James.
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Thanks for your reply. I don’t think the dates are right for the James in my family. It seems there was a lot of McKinneys in Antrim and James was a name commonly used in the family. Thanks again Ngatimoti71.
D
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Welcome to Rootschat :) Hopefully your topic will soon be moved to the correct board after you've clicked on 'report to moderator.'
I also searched for James McKinney died 1885 Carrickfergus and found the same records as sinann. Searching for James McKinney under Larne registration district (Carrickfergus is a sub-district) brings only 2 entries- the other is a James McKinney aged 41 died 1876.
He died at North East Division, was a farmer and a widower-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06291/4802937.pdf
Nothing for this James listed in PRONI Will Extracts or Irish Calendar of Wills and Administratons but there is a much later McKinney farming in the same place much later, possibly a descendant-
McKinney David Legg of North East Division Carrickfergus county Antrim farmer died 30 March 1923 Probate Belfast 6 June to Alexander Miscampbell J.P. and Samuel Mackay retired farmer. Effects £219 0s. 10d.
Here's the location of North East Division-
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/carrickfergus-or-st-nicholas/carrickfergus/north-east-division/
I also checked for James McKinney deaths in Belfast just in case he didn't die in Carrickfergus area (it's not that far from Belfast) but nothing even close there. Then checked all Ireland and again nothing close to the details you've posted.
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David Legg McKinney in 1911 census with wife & daughter-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Eden/North_East_Division/193177/
Daughter Margaret's birth gives mother as Jane McKay-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02499/1926885.pdf
Trying to find David & Jane's marriage to confirm his father's name.
David Legg McKinney in 1901- sons William & James in household-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Carrickfergus_Rural/North_East_Division/991856/
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According to this family information, David Legg McKinney was a son of James McKinney (c1800) & Elizabeth Miscampbell (1810-1881) and had a brother William Finlay McKinney & 2 other siblings-
https://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_miscampbell
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Welcome to Rootschat :) Hopefully your topic will soon be moved to the correct board after you've clicked on 'report to moderator.'
I also searched for James McKinney died 1885 Carrickfergus and found the same records as sinann. Searching for James McKinney under Larne registration district (Carrickfergus is a sub-district) brings only 2 entries- the other is a James McKinney aged 41 died 1876.
He died at North East Division, was a farmer and a widower-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06291/4802937.pdf
Nothing for this James listed in PRONI Will Extracts or Irish Calendar of Wills and Administratons but there is a much later McKinney farming in the same place much later, possibly a descendant-
McKinney David Legg of North East Division Carrickfergus county Antrim farmer died 30 March 1923 Probate Belfast 6 June to Alexander Miscampbell J.P. and Samuel Mackay retired farmer. Effects £219 0s. 10d.
Here's the location of North East Division-
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/carrickfergus-or-st-nicholas/carrickfergus/north-east-division/
I also checked for James McKinney deaths in Belfast just in case he didn't die in Carrickfergus area (it's not that far from Belfast) but nothing even close there. Then checked all Irelan and again nothing close to the details you've posted.
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Thank you so much for your info. Yes I am a complete beginner with both genealogy and Rootschat so hope I don’t make too many more mistakes.
David Legg McKinney is definitely my ancestor. Elizabeth Miscampbell was the spouse of James McKinney 1790 - 1885 so it all fits. I am delighted to get so much help. Many thanks.
Ngatimoti71
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in case its of interest
tithes
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/carrickfergus-saint-nicholas-parish.php
McKinney, George Townland: Barrys Land Year: 1816
McKinney, Geo. Townland: Bells Farm Year: 1816
McKinney, George Townland: Black Park Year: 1816
nearest to Carrickfergus
griffiths valuation 1860s
Mc Kinney Thos. Geo. Ballyvesey Carnmoney Antrim
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Hi there. Your post is definitely of interest to me. George is an ancestor and I would love to find the name of his wife. The only mention I have found of her she was named as Mrs McKinney. Not sure where else I can search.
The tithe site is new to me so thanks for making me aware of it.
Kind regards
Ngatimoti71
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Thank you very much for this information. It is helpful in my search. So kind of people on the other side of the world to assist.
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I think I would be concentrating on surviving church records and checking out printed sources about Carrickfergus
have you seen
church records
Public Record Office of Northern Ireland website, either
1. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni as you open it, there is a top rh side ‘search nidirect’ box. enter church guide below is https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records enter. or try
2. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide-to-Church-Records-October-2019.pdf
Carrickfergus civil parish is p 141
[there is now a digital version of just the Methodists baptisms 1826 onwards.]
books there are 94 entries in https://lhlibapp.qub.ac.uk/search/?searchtype=X&SORT=D&searcharg=carrickfergus
my starter would be
Author MacSkimin, Samuel, 1775-1843.
Title The history and antiquities of the county of the town of Carrickfergus, from the earliest records till 1839 : also a statistical survey of said county / by Samuel McSkimin.
Imprint Carrickfergus : Carrickfergus and District Historical Society , 2009.
Edition New ed / with notes and appendix by E. J. M'Crum.
Description xvi, 554p : ill., maps, ports. ; 23 cm.
Note Donated by Carrickfergus and District Historical Society (01640070)
You should consider contacting this CADDHS even joining them
beware of looking up the first edition its a lot slimmer I think ~218pp
the society may have their own indexs which could save you years elsewhere
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Many thanks for your help. It has plenty to keep me busy and given me some more sites to explore.
Kind regards
Ngatimoti71
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wow i quickly looked at two of many sub databases
in proni
from PRONI Names file
Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Connor Diocesan Wills
Surname : McKinney
Forename : George
Occupation :
Town or Townland : Carrickfergus
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1759
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.
Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Connor Diocesan Wills
Surname : McKinney
Forename : George
Occupation :
Town or Townland : Carrickfergus:
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1854
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.
Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Connor Diocesan Wills
Surname : McKinney
Forename : Letitia
Occupation :
Town or Townland : Carrickfergus
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1765
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.
Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Connor Diocesan Wills
Surname : McKinney
Forename : Joanna
Occupation :
Town or Townland : Carrickfergus
PRONI Ref :
Date : 1760
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.
it is important to note two females made wills in these times
from the ecatalogue at PRONI
Public Record Office for Northern Ireland
PRONI Reference : D607/B/80
Level : Item
Access : Open
Title : John Slade, Hillsborough, to Lord [Hillsborough
Dates : 24 April 1779
Description : John Slade, Hillsborough, to Lord [Hillsborough] about estate affairs.
'... I flatter myself shall soon be enabled to remit your Lordship largely to Drummonds. The tenants require strict severity to make them pay their rents. Last week the sheriff gave me possession of Crawford's holding at Carrickfergus, but they were obliged to carry George McKinney's wife out by force. I have set the 20 acres that he was in possession of for the remaining part of this year for 24 guineas to a responsible tenant, and have agreed with the tenants in possession for the other part of Crawford's holding for this year only, ending at Michaelmas next, when there will be four years rent due, for which I have taken notes payable one half 24 June and remainder at Michaelmas next. I purpose to punish that old villain George McKinney somehow or other. If your Lordships [sic] approves of it, I will mark a writ against him for the amount of the two last years' rents, which I find he has received of sundry persons that graze cattle on the land. ...
I must stop you are going to find it becomes more than a hobby ! good luck
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Hello.
All interesting material. Will have to find where Letitia and Joanne fit in.
Had no idea my ancestor was a VILLIAN !!! They must have been a colourful couple. It amuses me greatly, all law abiding McKinneys in NZ as far as I know.
Thank you so much for your help. I would never have found all of that myself.
Kind regards
Ngatimoti71
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Does Kati-Kati (about 30 miles from the port of Taurango) feature in your family history?
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A John A. McKINNEY (1837-1922, wife isabella BURNEY) sailed aboard the "Lady Jocelyn" (2,0000 tons, finest ship afloat) out of Carrickfergus on 20-05-1878 with 378 passengers, destined for the second STEWART settlement in NZ.
[Were they the first McKINNEYs in these pioneering NZ settlements?
Were your folks (emigrating the following year) related? Such was common.]
They delivered 5 children to the NZ shore.
Jane, Sarah, male, male, baby.
Then procreated further - John Barkeley McKINNEY (26-dec1879) and William Hugh McKINNEY (21-Feb-1883).
John was a farmer, but was subsequently invited to be the local Minister.
[This was after the death of the Reverend MARKS.
He had been sent out by the General Assembly of Belfast with the first settlement.
such expedition with 238 folks aboard the "Carisbrooke Castle" of 1,400 tons
leaving Belfast on 18-jun-1875 and arriving Auckland 08-sep1875.]
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I'd not worry too much about the "villain" label.
In the context in which such occurred, such folks were also known as "folk heroes"!
[Folks did not own their land "holdings" - such were only rented from the "landlords".
Usually for a limited period.
Rents & fines (payable on renewal) were hiked up in the 1770s, whereupon many folks emigrated (mainly to the Americas at that time).
Such was one of the main drivers of the 1798 Rebellion.
The situation got even worse in the late 19thC as estates became encumbered with debts and pension-liabilities.
The local bigwig (Lord Donegall, family name CHICHESTER) sold off many of his holdings to other bigwigs and middlemen who "racked up" the the rent to the end tenants.
Later, he snuck round the side and (illegally) granted "perpetual" leases at nominal rents in order to raise cash. Such "ropey" deals destabilised land tenures further.]
Folks emigrating to OZ/NZ enjoyed the freedom of being granted ownership of their own lands there from the local Government (on payment of a once off charge), without any subsequent annual rent.
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John was a brother of the famous local-to-Carnmoney genealogist William Fee McKINNEY. Carnmoney lies only 9 miles from Carrickfergus.
[Their father was Thomas George McKINNEY, whose mother was from a GEORGE family - such originating from Wales. He was resident at Burnt Hill, before buying Sentry Hill.]
John's sons "Joe" (Joseph McMCKINNEY) and "Jim" (William James McKINNEY) ended up in Oz, owning Kooba then Nangus on the Moorumbigee river.
They married respectively Elma and Effie MURRAY.
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This info came from a small beautiful book:
William Fee McKinney
Of Sentry Hill: His family and friends
Mrs. I.R Crozier. 1985
Impact Printing, Coleraine
ISBN 0 948154 00 4
153pp, hard back
Good history in there about the MacKENZIE clan origins.
[Many were Gallwegians - residents of Galloway, from whence many plantation settlers originated.
CJ: Though many lived on Uist, owned by "Lord Moray" at one time .... ]
They took part in the early 17thC STEWART Plantation of Ulster in Tyrone (some, no doubt, at the point of the new King James' boot). Then adopted the Jacobite cause later, scarpering back to Scotland in 1689, before scarpering back to Ulster after the 1715 defeat at Sherrifmuir by the Hanoverian forces.
James McKENZIE (with sword) arrived with his new 2nd wife Helen CAMPBELL (with cooking pot). They attended Carnmoney Pb church. Sons John (1719) and Andrew (1722) were born. They lived at Burnt Hill, Ballyduff townland, Carnmoney.
James' father (name unknown) had rented lands much earlier from the STEWARTs of Killymoon castle, Cookstown, in Co. Tyrone.
The settlements in NZ were sponsored by George Vesey STEWART, son of Captain Mervyn STEWART of Moutray , Ballygawley, Co. Tyrone. The lands at Kati-Kati were chosen for their ideal climate and rich easily-cultivated soil. Such proved very beneficial for the health & wealth of the emigrants.
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Book is, sadly, no longer in print.
However, pretty sure that it can be requested on inter-library loan from
Linenhall Library, Belfast and/or British Library (repository, Boston Spa).]
Searched for LEGG within the book without success.
However, the other coincidences with your research seem manifest!
[CJ: MacKENZIE family reckoned to have been Gallwegians (residents of Galloway) latterly.
However, IRC reckons (from research in copious historical tomes) that her ancestors were Highlanders from the lands of Avoch, with burials at nearby Beauly Priory. The clan held lands across the North of Scotland, from Lewis to the Black Isle, with seats at Eileen Donan, Brahan Castle, Castle Leod, Fairburn Tower. Principal burials were at Iona Abbey, Beauly Priory and the Canonry of Ross.]
The "Z" in the name only appeared in the mid-18thC.
The original Gaelic name is MacCONNIAGH.
Nearest pronounciation is McKINNIE (usually made M'KINNIE).
[Conniagh is, of course, Kenneth (as in Kenneth McALPINE, 1st King of Scots).]
Carrickfergus is only about 9 miles from the village of Carnmoney.
This is where a WFMcK's grandfather had his first holding, at the "Burnt Hill".
There must surely be a connection?!
Hopefully some of the this will strike a chord with you.
Capt Jock
P.S. OK, so youse knocked Ireland out of the World Rugby.
But we had the BEST man on the field!
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Hi Capt Jock. Sorry about the delay in replying. There is such a lot of information there. I will certainly read up the Irish history on the subjects you mention.
From what I have found my ancestors arrived on the Maraval from London. It sailed on 15 October 1878 and arrived in Auckland on 26 January 1879. They were James and Christina McKinney. Christina’s maiden name was Murrie and she was Scottish. They married in Lanarkshire Scotland. They had one child and another was born at sea. She was named Sarah Maraville McKinney.
They lived in Auckland for a time and then purchased land in Glenbrook. They are buried there. I haven’t found a link with the Katikati McKinneys so far.
I don’t have any comment about the World Cup except it is good for rugby to share it around!!!
Thank you so much for all your info. I really appreciate people taking the time. Kind regards. Ngatimoti71
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MURRIE. A Perthshire surname, a form of MURRAY.
MURIE, MUIRY. Local, from Murie in the parish of Errol, Perthshire.
John MURIE and Andrew MURIE from Glendevon, exiled Covenanters, were drowned off Orkney, 1679.
[Hanna, II, p.253]
John Muirie of Path of Strouiehill, 1757 (Dunkeld).
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Ref: The Surnames of Scotland
Their Origin, Meaning, and History
George F. Black. PH. D
ISBN 1 874744 83 1
BIRLINN, Edinburgh 1996
pps 620-621
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Thank you for the info on the name Murrie. Christina has an interesting ancestry.
Lots to study there.
Thanks again
Ngatimoti71
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Are you sure Christina was actually born in Scotland and not in Ireland of Scottish ancestry? I really wouldn't worry too much about spelling of names- it's only in fairly recent times that people were very literate and used a consistent spelling.
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There is a early George McKinney burried in Ballycarry Templecorran graveyard
Steve
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Hi Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Yes I am quite sure Christina McKinney was born in Scotland. I have her family tree and there are good records of her life in NZ. Thank you.
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Thanks Steve. That gives me another place to look. Will check it out.
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Does Kati-Kati (about 30 miles from the port of Taurango) feature in your family history?
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Book is, sadly, no longer in print.
However, pretty sure that it can be requested on inter-library loan from
Linenhall Library, Belfast and/or British Library (repository, Boston Spa).]
[CJ: MacKENZIE family reckoned to have been Gallwegians (residents of Galloway) latterly.
However, IRC reckons (from research in copious historical tomes) that her ancestors were Highlanders from the lands of Avoch, with burials at nearby Beauly Priory. The clan held lands across the North of Scotland, from Lewis to the Black Isle, with seats at Eileen Donan, Brahan Castle, Castle Leod, Fairburn Tower. Principal burials were at Iona Abbey, Beauly Priory and the Canonry of Ross.]
The "Z" in the name only appeared in the mid-18thC.
The original Gaelic name is MacCONNIAGH.
Nearest pronounciation is McKINNIE (usually made M'KINNIE).
[Conniagh is, of course, Kenneth (as in Kenneth McALPINE, 1st King of Scots).]
Carrickfergus is only about 9 miles from the village of Carnmoney.
This is where a WFMcK's grandfather had his first holding, at the "Burnt Hill".
There must surely be a connection?!
Hopefully some of the this will strike a chord with you.
Capt Jock
Hi, just came across this thread (indeed this forum!) - I'm not sure if "TheWhuttle" is related to the Carrickfergus McKinney's but I read with interest regarding the McKinney's of Carrickfergus & the backstory.
I too am from Kinney stock - Loughguile, County Antrim - local family history has it that we too were descended from McKenzie highlanders & I am a genetic match on Ancestry to a cluster in Carrickfergus though I have never been able to prove the connection
A family obituary of one of our Kinneys in 1890 recounts
"The origin of his family was Scotch and tradition says that two of his ancestors landed from a small boat at Ballycastle during the time of Cromwell’s protectorate, having escaped from the Royalist defeat and one of them having been discovered by a Cromwellian Trooper, one of his comrades either in real apprehensiveness, there being an alleged resemblance, or as a rouse, shouted out “My God, would you kill the king?” and so in the confusion this incident caused Mr Kinney’s ancestor’s escape. The name of these two Scotch Royalists were MacKenzie and other branches of their descendants still reside near Bushmills and in the neighbourhood of Carrickfergus."
Not sure if anyone is interested in exploring further
Jamie