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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: tbears52 on Thursday 19 September 19 08:22 BST (UK)
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Hello from mid north coast, New South Wales, Australia.
We, my cousin and myself are trying to solve the mystery of her 2nd Great Grandmother an my 2nd cousin three times removed.
Brief history Margaret Gray was born to Robert Gray and Janet nee King in Uddingston, Parish of Bothwell in 1845. She married William Inglis Hay in 1872.
Margaret or "Maggie" as she was also known as went missing after the 1881 Scotland Census (living in Paisley with her husband and two children )and she was finally located in the 1891 Scotland Census as an inpatient at Woodilee Lunatic Asylum, Lenzie Parish of Kirkintilloch & County Dumbarton. Maggie Gray was discharged from this facility in 1895. No record has been located for her in the 1901 or 1911 Scotland Census.
After many wrong purchases for Death Registrations she was finally located as passing at Ayton Cottage, Blebo Craigs, Fife in 1932.
A search of the Scottish Post Office Directories did not locate Maggie at all between discharge and her passing. However in the 1935 Scottish Post Office Directories revealed an Agnes Hay living at Ayton Cottage and a Valuation Roll for 1935 at Blebo Craigs, Parish of Kemback reveals an Agnes Hay as a Tenant of John Murray at Blebo Craigs. Agnes Hay could quite possible a relative by marriage but we are unable to find any connection.
Has anyone ever looked into Blebo Craigs and would they be able to advise where I may approach to see if further information can be located. I feel like I have exhausted everything but you never know.
Thank you for reading this message, I hope you can help my cousin and myself. Judi
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Hello tbears52 , Google Fife Family History Society in Cupar they have a wealth of info and are the best to contact .Cupar is not far from Blebo Craigs sorry can,t help more .Kirstyfairfull.
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Who was the informant on the DC & was their address given?
Annie
Edit to add...My Reply #5 has the informant details.
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A Tree on Anc* has her as Margaret Lawrie Fleming Gray i.e. may have used middle initials on census records?
The tree has a newspaper attachment for Unclaimed Mail (1882 Brooklyn, New York) for Mrs Wm Gray but there's no indication otherwise to say this was her?
Annie
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ROBERT GRAY Married JANET KING/ 17/01/1829 Kilmaurs, Ayrshire
If this is the correct marriage I see on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that they had a number of children in various parts of Lanarkshire but I do not see a Margaret among them, do you have a birth/baptism record?
Agnes Hay was at Ayton Cottage on Valuation Roll 1925/1930/1935 at Blebo Craigs but not 1940.
Colin
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DC on Anc. gives Eliza Hay (Sister-in-Law), Wetheral Plains, Carlisle.
William had been a Banker.
Tree has William Inglis Hay death 29 Jan 1904 Manhattan, New York, USA
It may be worth checking Immigration & US census records.
Edit...Info. from tree, William (Chartered Accountant) was in England 1901 census & remarried to Myra Josephine Putland
I would assume the Mrs M Wm Hay to have been Myra & unlikely Margaret was in the USA (apologies).
Annie
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I realise you may know the following but it may help others?
1881 Cleopatric Buildings, 1, Middle Church, Paisley, Renfrewshire
William Inglis Hay Head Married 33 1848 Engineers Clerk Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Maggie Gray Hay Wife Married 35 1846 - Uddingston, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Annie Ethel Hay Daughter - 5 1876 - Uddingston, Lanarkshire, Scotland
John Ritchie Hay Son - 2 1879
WILLIAM HAY/ELIZABETH INGLIS
JOHN 24/07/1846 Glasgow
WILLIAM INGLIS 22/10/1847 Glasgow
ROBERT 29/04/1849 Barony
JANET ERSKINE Barony
William I. Hay to Maggie Lawrie Fleming Gray 6 Feb 1872 Bothwell, Lanark
There are possible marriages for John & Robert to an Agnes but I cannot find any census or other records to be sure.
Colin
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Thank you very much Kirstyfairfull, Rosinish and ColC for your replies.
I will refer to her as Margaret which is the name I have known her for a number of years however it appears she may have been known as Maggie, starting at which time I do not know.
To address your responses I will start at the beginning of them to make things easier.
Kirstyfairfull, thank you for the Family History Society in Cupar, I will make contact with them.
Rosinish, thank you for the information you located. The tree you located on Ancestry with the information is my cousin's tree. I am helping her add to family history. I have been researching for over 47 years now and whilst she has been researching for quite a number of years this part of the family history (her full lineage) has always remained a bit of a mystery.
The family has so many twists and turns. The unclaimed letter for a Mrs Wm Gray was not Margaret, we believe it could possibly have been the lady William Hay may have formed a relationship with. We cannot prove this at this stage.
William and Margaret had two children Annie Ethel Hay in Scotland and then John Ritchie Hay while the couple were in Assenhole, West Bengal, India. Both these two children ended up living out their lives in Australia.
Sadly the two children were spirited away to the United States, without Margaret's knowledge arriving 6 September 1883. They were actually told their mother died of Bright's disease. The children resided with a sister of the lady William had formed a relationship with (but never married). Her name was Maria Josephine Putland but went by many different christian names.
Annie and John returned to Scotland arriving Glasgow February 1891. They lived with William's mother and appear in the 1891 Scotland Census.
For some reason documentation shows William, purporting to be a Widower, being admitted to a Hospital & Asylum in Liverpool, New South Wales, having lived on his own means which were now exhausted. He was admitted on 1.9.1898 and discharged by request 9.9.1898. He was again admitted 21.9.1898 and discharged by request 1.10.1898.
William is next found living in England in the 1901 England Census with his "spouse" Myra J Hay. Myra or Maria had been living in the USA and arrived 1884.
To muddy the waters William had placed Margaret into Glasgow Royal Asylum, Gartnavel on 6 March 1882 as a private patient. She was later transferred to Woodilee 25 August 1883 by Authority of Dr Mitchell. Margaret was Discharged Relieved 5 July 1895. We have the records for Margaret
William, Maggie and their two children Annie and John were living in Paisley, Renfrew at the time of the 1881 Census.
The informant on Margaret's Death Certificate is Elizabeth Gray, sister-in-law to Margaret. Elizabeth had married George Gray, Margaret's younger brother.
It was by pure chance that I located the deaths of William and Myra in 1904. Their deaths were caused by "Asphysxia by Illuminating Gas Accidental". They had been back and forward to the USA between 1903 and 1904.
On their State of New York Certificate and Record of Death it is stated they had been married for 20 years which is totally not true as William and Margaret never divorced.
It also seems that William's actual profession could have been glorified over time. More than likely he was a Book Keeper / Clerk. No reference can be found to him being a Banker.
It would seem that William certainly did not cover himself in glory at all in relation to his lawful wife Margaret. She was turned from a Private Patient into a Pauper Patient.
Colin, thank you for your information. Robert Gray married Janet King my 3 x Great Great Aunt, sister to my 3 x Great Great Grandmother Elizabeth King.
Margaret comes from the marriage of this couple's first born son George Gray who married Ann Jack in 1844. Margaret was this couple's first born child being born in 1845. Ann died 1878 at "Bankhead", Uddingston, Parish of Bothwell. George died 1890 at Manor Place, Dunedin, New Zealand, a week after arriving to visit his brother.
I will now go back to look at the Valuations Rolls for 1925 and 1930, I just purchased the one for 1935, thank you for this.
Before I forget, the Gray Family were Agricultural Implement Makers from Uddingston and 3 of the sons settling in New Zealand and two other sons passing in Queensland, although only one can be located with a Death Registration. The family business was started with George Gray in the early 1800s and many awards were won by the businesses. They exported to Canada, New Zealand, Australia and I also believe Ireland as well.
In relation to John Hay, he married Elizabeth Baillie Hiddleston in 1868. She passed away 1921 and John in 1927 both in Glasgow. Robert Hay never married and passed away in 1921 Glasgow.
If Margaret was in fact in the care of Agnes Hay then it is highly likely to have been an Agnes marrying into the Hay family or perhaps a relative of the Hay family themselves. This will need further looking into.
Hopefully I have been able to answer your comments right. The hunt for Margaret continues.
Edit: The sad thing is that Margaret never knew what happened to her children and her children did not know Margaret was alive before leaving Scotland to start new lives in Australia.
With grateful thanks. Judi
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I wanted to let you know after more than two years of researching high and low and with the help of a wonderful gentleman at the Fife Family History Society Maggie has been brought home to her family in Australia and a Memorial Tablet has been placed on her Lair.
Maggie was a lady lost to her children but is now a lady found by her descendants and brought home to them.
Kind regards
Judi
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What a lovely gesture in Maggie's memory, especially at this time of year.
Annie
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It was a "labour of love" Rosinish to locate Maggie and many tears were shed once finding where she was laid to rest and then seeing how beautiful the Memorial Tablet was placed on her Lair. I have attached a photograph of what we settled on. We tried to encompass that Maggie was never forgotten by her children and their descendants and is very dearly loved.
The photograph was taken by the gentleman from the Fife Family History Society. He took a few pictures and laid some flowers to let Maggie (“oor Maggie”) know she is forever in all our thoughts.
My cousin is descended from Annie Ethel Hay, who married William Cullen in Australia in 1903. They travelled on the same ship to Australia with William leaving the ship in Western Australia and Annie went to New South Wales.
From what my cousin has found it looks like the Cullen side of the family are descendants of Andrew Cullen (? - 1840) and Agnes Mitchell (abt 1778 - 1863), both born in Ireland and both passing in Airdrie. Are these part of your Cullen family by any chance please?
Cheers
Judi
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The Memorial Tablet looks lovely & the words very fitting.
I'm not surprised tears were shed, it's a sad story all round but closure too.
Did you ever find out who Agnes Gray was?
Re the Cullen surname, I don't have an Andrew in my tree but it's possible siblings/other relatives of my 3 x g g/father Peter came over from Ireland who I've been unable to identify?
My 3 x g g/f died in 1865 in Wishaw, Lanarkshire & his son-in-law who was the informant, didn't know his parents' names.
It looks as though my 3 x g g/f arrived as a widower between c1844 & 1851 as I have him with his family in 1851 in Penty, Shotts, Lanarkshire but his youngest daughter, my 2 x g g/m was born in Ireland c1844-46 (no baptism found to date).
There's also a possible sibling or other relation named James living in Penty, Shotts in 1851 who married Mary Caddell in Glasgow in 1845 but no witnesses were recorded to be of any help :-\
James Cullen died in 1889 in Renfrewshire, his parents were Matthew & Janet (m/s Cooper).
None of the children of my Peter are named Matthew or Janet but I have a DNA link with someone who seems to be related to this family which we haven't worked out!
If you want to give me the details of William's parents/g parents with dates/places, I don't mind having a look around for a possible connection?
I also have a DC for a James (Single) 72 in 1885 in Airdrie with parents John & Margaret (m/s Weir)
On the same pg is Catherine King (Single) 10 mths, parents Peter & Mary (m/s Murphy) which may be of interest to you?
Annie
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Annie, I did find out who Agnes Hay was. I hope this is the Agnes you were referring to, not Agnes Gray?
Agnes Hay was born 31 March 1850 and baptised 5 May 1850 at Uphall, West Lothian, Scotland to william Foster and Janet Mair.
Agnes Foster first married David Crichton on 6 December 1882 in the Registration District of Newington, City of Edinburgh – 6 Viewforth Terrace, Edinburgh. David's parents David Crichton General Labourer and Margaret Crichton MS Thomson, both deceased. David who married Agnes was listed as a Maltman on Agnes' death registration.
Following David's passing Agnes Foster then married Robert Hay on 7 June 1894 in the Registration District of South Leith – 6 Dickson Street, Leith. Robert Hay's parents were Robert Hay Railway Servant and Jane Hay MS Stevens, both deceased. Robert Hay was listed as a Railway Foreman on Agnes' death registration.
Agnes Hay passed away 9 December 1939 at 27 Constitution Street, Dundee. Her usual place of residence was Farview, Blebo Craigs, Fife. The informant was John Murray, Nephew, Fairview, Blebo Craigs, Fife.
After finding this information and obtaining Valuation Rolls for between 1921 and 1936 Agnes Hay actually resided at Fairview Cottage, not Ayton Cottage.
Armed with this information I then went looking to see if I could locate anything to do with Ayton Cottage. I came across a gentleman Isaac Newton (retired) living there. The proprietor of the property was Joan H. Laing, sylvan Cottage, Kinross the first instance I located was 1925 – 1925. By 1930 Valuation Rolls Mary Newton, was living at Ayton Cottage and continued until the 1940 1941 Valuation Rolls. I did not go further with these as by this time Maggie Gray / Hay had passed away.
So all in all Agnes Foster / Crichton / Hay is totally discounted from the family history for Maggie. The biggest where was Maggie between 1895 until she died still is a mystery. However, did she actually reside with Mary Newton or perhaps the informant on Maggie's death registration give the wrong address. The informant was Maggie's sister-in-law so this will be a brick wall until further evidence can be located.
It has been an incredible journey with finding Maggie and what happened to her. As I have said before it certainly was a labour of love to bring her home.
Kind regards
Judi
In relation to the Cullen family I will get back to you with the information, once I get some of it sorted. I will PM you with this as it is not applicable to the Fife Forum. It may take a week or so as I am still trying to follow down some leads.
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I forgot to put this in with the previous message, sorry.
The Courier and Advertiser, Monday, December 11, 1939, page 5
WOMAN OF 92 FOUND DEAD IN BED
Relatives with whom she was staying found on Saturday morning that Mrs Agnes Foster or Hay, c/o Dickson, 27 Constitution Street, Dundee, had died suddenly in bed.
Though 92, Mrs Hay had enjoyed good health until a day or two ago and until last week had resided alone at Blebo Craigs, Fife.
The interesting thing is Agnes Hay's death registration states she was 89 years and she died of Myocardial Degeneration Arterio Sclerosis and was seen after Death by James Ferguson MB ChB