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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Lakelass on Tuesday 17 September 19 06:21 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any information on my GG grandfather Edmund Dwyer. The following is what I know about him:
Born: ABT 1863 Cork, Ireland as per death Cert. & daughters birth cert
Married: 1890 to Fanny Campbell at Ballina
1890: blacksmith 1905: Blacksmith/wheelwright Wardell (Sands directory)
1903: undertaker 1906: blacksmith
His blacksmith shop was on the Lismore road.
1906 died aged 43, Wardell, Richmond River, NSW. He had been in an accident on a ferry 14 years prior but I can't find anything on this either.
Nothing to say how long in the colony.
There is an Edmund Dwyer about the right age that came with p's Richard 23 & Bridget 23, & sibling Ellen 2, on the Racehorse in 1866. But I can't prove that there is a relationship to my Edmund Dwyer.
If anyone knows of this family or my Edmund, I would be very happy to hear from you.
Regards Lakelass
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You probably have this from The Clarence River Advocate, Tue 20 Nov 1906.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121390608
Mr. Edmund Dwyer, blacksmith, of Wardell, died last week. Mr. Dwyer for some 14 years had suffered from an internal complaint due to a fall he received in a ferry boat. He was about 50 years of age, and
had been a resident of Wardell for 15 years.
A widow and a large family survive him.
There is an on-line tree suggesting he was born in NSW in 1862, parents Patrick DWYER and Ellen HUNT. It would seem to me that this is not correct as his birthplace is given on a daughter's birth certificate as Cork, Ireland. The information for the daughter's birth registration would have been given by him or Fanny so would be likely to be accurate. Information on death certificates depends on the informant knowing the correct facts.
Do you have his marriage certificate which should give his birthplace and his father's name?
My maiden name was DWYER (no relation to your family) and I know how tricky it is to find information among all those Patricks and Michaels and Edmunds!
Judith
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So as he had been injured 14 years prior to death and he had been in the district 15 years, one guesses the ferry accident may have been on the local ferry .
This is the closest reference I can see.
Not much to go on!
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/125895626
Sue
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You need to see the marriage certificate, 1890. Edmund will be giving information about his origins.
Can you please list all the information on the death certificate, 1906.
(I am not seeing this on the NSW BDM Index)
Can you please list all the information on the daughter's birth certificate that you have.
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The NSW Elec Roll 1903-4 for Ballina, Richmond River (source Ancestry.com.au) has a listing in Ballina for Patrick Dwyer, cook underneath the entry for Edmund Dwyer, blacksmith of Wardell.
Could this Patrick be his brother? Death registered in Ballina
Name: Patrick Dwyer
Death Date: 1913
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's name: Cornelius
Mother's name: Mary A
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Place: Ballina, New South Wales
Registration Number: 11716
Name: Patrick Dwyer
Death Age: 50
Birth Date: abt 1863
Death Date: 28 Jun 1913
Cemetery: Woronora Cemetery
Cemetery Location: Sutherland, New South Wales, Australia
Burial Location: Sutherland
Well worth checking out as the death notice for father Cornelius Dwyer on Trove: states he was from Tipperary ( so near Cork) but could just be what the family thought.
shume... australia
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Hi shume,
I have looked into this family of Cornelius Dwyer. No son called Edmund on Trove notices or on BDMs.
Thank you for your help.
Regards Lakelass
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NSW Electoral Roll 1902 RICHMOND, Polling at Ballina
Patrick DWYER, of Ballina, a cook.
NSW ER 1902 RICHMOND, Polling at Wardell
Edmund DWYER, of Wardell, a blacksmith
Fanny DWYER of Wardell, domestic duties.
The 1902 NSW ER was the first NSW roll to include females. These ERs are NOT the same as the 1903-04 ones.
It was not yet compulsory to enrol, but to be eligible to enrol you needed to be a British subject, aged 21 years and over and live at the address for six or more months.
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/blogs/new-south-wales-electoral-rolls
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/electoral-rolls-guide
Sands Country Alphabetical Directory 1903 (so closing date was end of Oct 1902)
Edward DWYER, Wheelwright, Wardell.
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/blogs/sands-directory-completely-digitised-city-sydney-archives
Grevilles PO Directory 1872 WARDELL (same info also in the 1875 Grevilles)
Denis DWYER, farmer, Pimblico, Wardell.
Some submitted tree information here
http://www.thetreeofus.net/194841.htm
JM
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Its a huge coincidence that a Patrick Dwyer b 1863 was living in Ballina in 1903-4. I noticed no mention of Edmund on the Trove obit for Cornelius but then he died in 1906 and Cornelius in 1913 .. survived by "wife and children" which isn't that helpful.
shume
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NSW ER 1878 THE CLARENCE … In the Ballina Police District (the electorate covered parts of several Police districts, and the rolls were prepared by the local police under the directions of the Police Magistrates).
Dennis DWYER, of Pimblico, freehold at Pimlico
Edward DWYER, residence of Riley’s Hill.
NSW ER 1870 THE CLARENCE (Ballina PD)
Dennis DWYER, residence, Pimblico.
JM
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Its a huge coincidence that a Patrick Dwyer b 1863 was living in Ballina in 1903-4. I noticed no mention of Edmund on the Trove obit for Cornelius but then he died in 1906 and Cornelius in 1913 .. survived by "wife and children" which isn't that helpful.
shume
Hi,
I may have missed it, but errr .... how do you know that the Patrick DWYER who was living in Ballina in 1903-4 was born in 1863? it was not yet compulsory to enrol.
JM
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Sands Country Commercial Directory 1901 (so as at close of entries end of Oct 1900) page 861.
WARDELL
Edwd. DWYER, Wheelwright and Blacksmith
NO others by that surname listed for Wardell.
http://cdn.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives/sands/1900-1909/1901-part8.pdf page 46 of 61 at that pdf.
Ballina Commercial in 1901 is at part 7, none with the surname DWYER listed.
http://cdn.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives/sands/1900-1909/1901-part7.pdf
page 7 of that pdf
Excellent resources, live links in many instances, and free to search … NSW RChat Resources Board https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
JM
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MODIFYING at 7.30 pm AEST NSW Re decipher location....
Re the DWYER family on the Racehorse, arriving to NSW 22 September 1866
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4789&ship=Racehorse This is the live link to the passenger list
Richard DWYER, AGED 23, a labourer, from Tipperary, I(reland), Roman Catholic, Can Read and Write.
Bridget DWYER, aged 23, wife, also from Tipperary, Roman Catholic and can Read and Write
Ellen DWYER, aged 2, Tipperary, Roman Catholic
Edmund DWYER, aged 1, Tipperary, Roman Catholic
The Immigration Deposit Journals for that voyage show
Certificate No
Deposit No
Depositor
Date of Deposit
Christian Name and Surname at full length
Age
Whether Husband or Wife resident in the Colony
Trade or Calling
Where living – in Great Britain or Ireland
Name and Address of some person of note to whom reference can be made respecting the Emigrants
Proportion to be applied to Passage £ s d
Porportion to be applied towards Outfit £ s d
Total £ s d
Remarks
The depositor was Dennis BARRAGRY, he was aged 22. He provided for the following:
Richard DWYER aged 23; Bridget DWYER 23; Ellen DWYER 2 ½; Edmund DWYER 6 months; Mary O’CONNOR 40; Elizabeth SLADE 28; Michael SLADE 22.
Richard and Bridget were from Tipperary, BUT THE REST OF GROUP WERE NOT, I have attached a snip with their location in long hand. I am not familiar with Irish localities. ****
Mary was a Widow, Elizabeth a Servant and Michael a labourer.
Referee was Revd S HOWLEY, Tipperary
The Immigration Deposit Journals are available on Microfilm at the NSW Archives, Kingswood, NSW. Reel 2672 for the above info re Dennis BARRAGRY
Here's the newspaper announcement re those deposits ... SMH 25 Sept 1866,
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28613152 - There's DWYER, O'CONNOR and SLADE listings against Denis (one 's') BARRAGRY.
****
Yes, well ... err .... the word I could not read ... yes ... it is IRELAND ...
So the DWyer Family and Mary and Elizabeth and Michael ... were from ..
Tipperary,
Co(unty ) Tipperary
IRELAND.
:-[ :-[ :-[ ??? ::) ... my specs needed cleaning....
JM
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Denis BARRAGRY is listed in the Sydney Sands Alphbetical Directories... in 1869
He had a bakery 181 Cumberland Street, The Rocks :) and he is also listed at Bullanaming St, Redfern
In the 1867 Sands directory there is a Richd DWYER at 190 Cumberland St, a shoemaker, AND a Miss Bridget DWYER, grocer, 181 Cumberland St. ...
The City of Sydney Archives ... and their Assessment Books may be able to help ...
https://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives
https://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/house-and-building-histories/assessment-books
May or may not be relevant :
DEATHS
22 May 1897 Freeman's Journal
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/115473998
DWYER May 17th 1897, Bridget the dearly beloved wife of Richard Dwyer of 134 Dowling St, Woollomooloo. sister of Mr P Dimond of William Street. Deeply regretted by all who knew her. May her soul rest in peace.
8 September 1899, Australian Star
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/228755834
DWYER On September 8, 1899, at his residence, 134 Dowling Street, Woolloomooloo, Richard DWYER aged 50 years R.I.P.
NSW BDM online index - deaths
Bridget DWYER, parents as William and Mary, registered Sydney #3540/1897
Richard DWYER, parents as Jeremiah and Ellen, registered Sydney, #8336/1899
I cannot see an obvious connection to the chap who died at age 43 in 1906, registered Ballina #11645/1906.
JM
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Hi to all & thank you,
I have estimated Edmund Dwyers birth from the age on daughters birth cert (reg. Ballina), marriage cert.(27 in 1890) & Death cert (43 1906).
On the Marriage & death cert. PARENTS NOT LISTED Time in colony NOT KNOWN
He was married in Wardell 1890 died Wardell 1906.
I have been on trove searching through Dwyer obituaries looking for relatives but as yet no connections. I am eliminating rather than finding.
Thank you Majm for that information on Richard & Bridget, I will have a good look at it but does not look like my Edmund.
Maybe he came on his own not long before getting married to Fanny. Maybe he had another christian name? Maybe he didn't come from Cork, Ireland. The informants on the daughters birth was Fannys mother. On the death it was wife, Fanny.
Dwyre is spelt Dwyre on the death cert.
I have been searching off & on for the last 19 years. I keep coming back & trying again. My brickwalls are nearly all Irish.
thanks again to all, I will have a good look at all that you have sent me & decide what to do next. Anything else you may find or suggest, I would be most grateful.
Regards Lakelass
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Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 1890.
All the information about Edmund DWYER......all the information about Fanny CAMPBELL....
dates, occupations, names, church, witnesses...........everything.....in a list.
Indicate if headings are left blank, or have "unknown" etc.
Is it an image of a handwritten document...or typed transcription.
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Hi Wivenhoe,
Marriage transcription - typed - Joy murrin
reg 02092 dom 3.6.1890 place Wardell, Richmond River
Religion Presbyterian (on his death he is RC)
Groom Edmund Dwyer Bachelor birth place not listed Blacksmith age not listed
usual residence Wardell parents not listed
Bride Fanny Campbell spinster birthplace not listed servant age not listed
usual residence Wardell parents not listed
Witnesses Charles Henley, Annie Campbell
Minister: Alexander Mcclinchie
Comments Mrs Campbell, mother of the bride, gave consent to the marriage of Fanny.
A month later my great grandmother was born on the 4 Jul 1890. Fanny had turned 17 on 22 April, 1890.
Regards Lakelass
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Hi Wivenhoe,
Marriage transcription - typed - Joy murrin
reg 02092 dom 3.6.1890 place Wardell, Richmond River
Religion Presbyterian (on his death he is RC)
Groom Edmund Dwyer Bachelor birth place not listed Blacksmith age not listed
usual residence Wardell parents not listed
Bride Fanny Campbell spinster birthplace not listed servant age not listed
usual residence Wardell parents not listed
Witnesses Charles Henley, Annie Campbell
Minister: Alexander Mcclinchie
Comments Mrs Campbell, mother of the bride, gave consent to the marriage of Fanny.
A month later my great grandmother was born on the 4 Jul 1890. Fanny had turned 17 on 22 April, 1890.
Regards Lakelass
I am on my e reader, not near my puter, sorry.
1890, regionsl NSW marriage, and as usual NSW BDM records of marriage has elusive blanks. There is a rather long thread with tips how to overcome ... basically NSW BDM only received summary info, but the clergy did record on their own churches regusters the info given first hand... including parents names, dad's occupation, age of bride and groom, birth places of bride and groom etc.
A look through RChats NSW resources board should find the thread I did up re 'elusive banks' oon NSW bdm marriages 1856 - 1895 ...
Some brickwalls are smashable.
ADD E READER makes spelling mistakes and cannot do live links.
JM
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A look through RChats NSW resources board should find the thread I did up re 'elusive banks' oon NSW bdm marriages 1856 - 1895 ...
Some brickwalls are smashable.
Here is the link...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0
Debra :)
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The marriage certificate certainly has a number of omissions. ::)
Sue
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Yes I HAVE EDITED A POST AFTER SOME HOURS AND AFTER OTHERS HAVE READ AND POSTED...
MODIFYING at 7.30 pm AEST NSW Re decipher location....
Re the DWYER family on the Racehorse, arriving to NSW 22 September 1866
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4789&ship=Racehorse This is the live link to the passenger list
Richard DWYER, AGED 23, a labourer, from Tipperary, I(reland), Roman Catholic, Can Read and Write.
Bridget DWYER, aged 23, wife, also from Tipperary, Roman Catholic and can Read and Write
Ellen DWYER, aged 2, Tipperary, Roman Catholic
Edmund DWYER, aged 1, Tipperary, Roman Catholic
The Immigration Deposit Journals for that voyage show
Certificate No
Deposit No
Depositor
Date of Deposit
Christian Name and Surname at full length
Age
Whether Husband or Wife resident in the Colony
Trade or Calling
Where living – in Great Britain or Ireland
Name and Address of some person of note to whom reference can be made respecting the Emigrants
Proportion to be applied to Passage £ s d
Porportion to be applied towards Outfit £ s d
Total £ s d
Remarks
The depositor was Dennis BARRAGRY, he was aged 22. He provided for the following:
Richard DWYER aged 23; Bridget DWYER 23; Ellen DWYER 2 ½; Edmund DWYER 6 months; Mary O’CONNOR 40; Elizabeth SLADE 28; Michael SLADE 22.
Richard and Bridget were from Tipperary, BUT THE REST OF GROUP WERE NOT, I have attached a snip with their location in long hand. I am not familiar with Irish localities. ****
Mary was a Widow, Elizabeth a Servant and Michael a labourer.
Referee was Revd S HOWLEY, Tipperary
The Immigration Deposit Journals are available on Microfilm at the NSW Archives, Kingswood, NSW. Reel 2672 for the above info re Dennis BARRAGRY
Here's the newspaper announcement re those deposits ... SMH 25 Sept 1866,
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28613152 - There's DWYER, O'CONNOR and SLADE listings against Denis (one 's') BARRAGRY.
****
Yes, well ... err .... the word I could not read ... yes ... it is IRELAND ...
So the DWyer Family and Mary and Elizabeth and Michael ... were from ..
Tipperary,
Co(unty ) Tipperary
IRELAND.
:-[ :-[ :-[ ??? ::) ... my specs needed cleaning....
JM
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Can you please list all the information on the death certificate, 1906, Edmund DWYER.
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Typed Transcription Joy Murrin
Regn 11645 dod 15 Nov 1906 place Wardell name Edmund Dwyre
Blacksmith male age 43 cause Tuberculosis of lungs duration 3 years
medical attendant s. Manti, 15 Nov
Father PARENTS NOT LISTED F's occupation blank M's maiden name blank
informant Mrs P Troy, sister in law Wardell
buried 17 Nov 1906 where Wardell undertaker John Byrne Minister Charles Casey
Religion RC witnesses C Way (son in law), P. Flood
Where born Cork, Ireland time in colony NOT KNOWN
Place of marriage Wardell, NSW at age 27 spouse Fanny Campbell
children of marriage Annie 16, Violet 13, Edna 11, Edmund 8, Kenneth 5, Jessie 4, Errol 2, Jean 6mths living, none deceased
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NSW BDM online index for deaths shows that the (death) registration 11645 of 1906 is listed twice... spelling his surname under both DWYRE and DWYER. :) so one registration, but indexed twice....
JM
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I've looked at the NSW resources re blanks.
Edmund Dwyer married Fanny Campbell 3.6.1890 at Wardell, by Rev. Alexander McClinchie of Presbyterian religion.
I don't know if they were married in a church, Fanny would have been very pregnant, giving birth a month later.
I have emailed the Richmond River Historical Society & asked if they know where the parish records would be held.
I will await a reply before contacting churches in the area.
Thank you all again for your knowledge & kindness
Regards Lakelass
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:) :) There is no requirement to be married in a Church Building in NSW ... it is a church marriage as the ceremony was conducted by a clergyman :) :) and he was required by his Church laws to record the information on his parish register.
You are seeking the register that the Reverend used to record ceremonies that he conducted... :)
The Presbyterians and the Methodists united to form the Uniting Church in 1977, and much of their archives have become stored together here: https://directory.archivists.org.au/index.php/uniting-church-in-australia-synod-of-new-south-wales-and-the-act-archives-office They have nominal fees for retrieving archived material.
JM
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Thanks again Majm,
You have so much information. I have sent off an email asking if they hold the parish records. I'll await their reply.
Thanks so much Lakelass
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I was quite excited awaiting a reply from the church Archives. They told me to contact Ferguson Memorial Library (Presbyterian church archives) which would probably hold the records. Had a phone call saying "there are no records for this minister & that they were probably washed away in a flood". So back to where I began, not knowing which ship Edmund arrived on or his whereabouts before his marriage, & not being able to prove that he is related to other Dwyers. He is a mystery!
Thanks again everyone for your help.
regards Lakelass
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Oh Lakelass, I am sitting here shaking my head and muttering ... its not fair, not fair. I will pull my thinking cap down harder.
ADD
Rev Alex McClinchie ... where was his next post? Would the register go wiith him to next post ... possibly..
JM
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I have added to my post and then realised you are still likely online.
Oh Lakelass, I am sitting here shaking my head and muttering ... its not fair, not fair. I will pull my thinking cap down harder.
ADD
Rev Alex McClinchie ... where was his next post? Would the register go wiith him to next post ... possibly..
JM
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oh I hope you are still here and see the reply
we have a fb group for Dwyers in Australia.... you will find us Condon/Dwyer's of Australia Genealogical Project on Facebook. We are all sharing our Dwyer family histories and helping each other.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/197404346643461