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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Tarella on Tuesday 17 September 19 01:48 BST (UK)
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Charles Pryse, born 10 Feb 1814 Birmingham died 12 Mar 1887. Joint owner of Pryse & Redman, gunmakers and Jewellers of 84 Aston St. Birmingham.
Married Emma Amelia Neck 20 Oct 1860 in Blomsbury, Three children Charles Henry Redman Pryse 1863 - 1873 ?, Henry Louis Vanneck Pryse 1865 - 1920, Annie Gwyneth Pryse 1868 - 1963.
Publications of English Gunsmiths and Groups and enthusiasts of English Guns, record that Charles Pryse junior, son of the owner of Charles Pryse & Co, after the partnership with Redman was dissolved, ran the business from 1873 - 1888. seeing that the only son called Charles that I know of was born in 1863 this seems improbable, and I think he died in 1873, but might be mistaken.
Is possible that Charles Pryse snr had another son Charles by an earlier marriage, but seems unlikely.
Can we check this out please.
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Born 1814 married 1860 - what was his marital status on the 1860 marriage cert?
EDIT
They were bachelor & spinster on cert
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A Pryce Revolver got itself to America.
https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/british-pryse-revolver-ah4184/
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A Pryce Revolver got itself to America.
https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/british-pryse-revolver-ah4184/
I have found many references to the Pryse Redman guns and stories in the collectors press and webpages, they all repeat the assumption that there was a Charles Pryse jnr who took over the firm. The only other Charles Pryse in the family was a nephew who was not successful and died early.
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I think I need to write a book about Pryse and Redman - anyone got any history?
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seeing that the only son called Charles that I know of was born in 1863 this seems improbable, and I think he died in 1873, but might be mistaken.
This grave stone would certainly suggest Charles jnr died in 1873
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2019/147/199505581_fd567999-15ef-425a-940a-bfa09ffa6868.jpeg
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You probably know how John, Charles' brother, also a member of the business died? There are many newspaper articles about it at the time - James SCOTT sentenced to death in July 1867.
Modified to add:
The sentence was reprieved to life, and he was released in 1887.
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I've been going in circles trying to peg down Charles the younger, but it seems he does exist.
In the newspaper, the Birmingham Daily Post 02 February 1877 there is a list of patents, one being for Charles Pryse, the younger, who had applied for a patent for improvements for revolving and repeating small arms. Patent dated November 15, 1876.
Sometime after 1888 (can't find the reference in my messy notes!) there is a clerk running an ad seeking employment, as his prior employer, Charles Pryse (gun manufacturer) had retired in 1888. That makes me think Charles the younger wasn't all that much younger, in comparison to Charles the elder.
Could he be a cousin, and the terms elder and younger, were not meaning Senior/Junior, but just to keep it clear which Charles was being referred to?
Could he have been a son of Charles the Elder's brother John? I read the articles on John's murder, and it indicated he had children.
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Yes, I've been wondering the same thing trying to track down the members of the family. Agree that "the younger" does not necessarily mean the "son of".
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Dec 16, 1883 at Aston Brook, St. Mary, there is a baptism for an Annie Prudence, daughter of Charles Pryse, gunmaker, and wife Clara. It states she was born 24 Nov. 1883, and they lived at 228 Park Lane.
Annie marries a Caleb Jordan (Lorden?) Moore in 1903, where her father is indicated to be Charles Pryse, deceased gunmaker.
Charles and Clara also had a son in 1882, names James Gwynne Pryse. (Charles the elder's father John, also had the middle name of Gwynne) Address was Cardigan St. Occupation of this Charles was manager of gun manufacture.
Now we just need the marriage of this Charles to Clara, and hopefully his father is listed.
There is a Civil Registration for a Clara Wilson, 1881, Aston, where a potential groom listed is Charles Pryse.
Clara Wilson Jun qtr 1881 Aston Warwickshire
Volume: 6d Page: 468
After a lot of running around in circles, I'm back to thinking he is the son of Lewis (brother to Charles the elder) and Sarah, and Sarah remarried James Brown. I have NOT checked this is out fully, but I'm thinking the Charles the younger is mistranscribed as Charles Pryor with stepfather James Brown and Sarah on the 1881 census:
Charles Pryor, age 29, born approx 1852, born Birm, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Aston
County: Warwickshire
230 Park Lane
Occupation: Clerk
Registration district: Aston
Sub registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 32a
Piece: 3042
Folio: 93
Page 45
If that is him, he would have been married shortly after census day.
I still thought he would have been older, but if it is him, maybe his retirement in 1888 was just from that business. I have not tracked him well enough to to be sure, but it's too late here for me to carry on with it for now!
Edited: I meant Lewis, not Thomas. (too tired
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to confirm BBarts info
there is this pay per view record suggesting that Charles and Clara indeed married and have a child born Aston Brook ,
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?size=10&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&type_periode=between&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&nom=pryse&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=clara&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=Warwickshire%2C+England%2C+United+Kingdom&country__0__=GBR®ion__0__=ENG&subregion__0__=WAR&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=®ion__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=®ion__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=®ion__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=®ion__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=&to=&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
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Please note I have edited my previous post, as I mentioned the wrong brother to Charles the elder, when noted Thomas, instead of Lewis. Lewis Pryse was also a gunmaker, wife a wife Sarah, and a son Charles.
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Lewis PRYSE, brother to Charles senior, also had a son Charles, born 30 Nov 1858, but he died 30 Dec 1861.
Thomas PRYSE, also a brother to the above, as you say had a son Charles, bap 28 Sep 1851 (St George, Birmingham) - parents Thomas and Sarah. In 1871 he is with grandmother Sarah PRYCE and her daughter Ann at Duddeston cum Nechells (GBC/1871/3143/0175), he is a manufacturers clerk. (Sarah is the wife of John Gwynne PRYCE.)
Earlier I did see a newpaper article mentioning a Charles PRYCE - a "young man, gunfinisher" in 1870. I'll try to find it again. :)
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To start off going forward. Charles Pryse and Clara Wilson had two children - James who marries Mary Ann Eastabrook and Annie Prudence who marries Caleb Lawden Moore, my grandparents.
Going backward - Lewis Pryse 1830- 1867 married Elizabeth Ann Warren they had 10 children, a Charles was the fourth 1858 - 1861 - not our Charles.
PS Caleb Lawden Moore was named after Caleb Lawden of Tipping and Lawden - also gunsmiths. Eldest sibling was named Horatio King Moore, their mother liked important names.
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I have all the newspaper articles about the "murder at Pryse and Redman" if you are at all interested.
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I am now satisfied that there was never a Charles Pryse jnr who took over the firm, the old man kept control. I have a wedding portrait of the family at the wedding of Charles and Clara in 1881, however its a bit big to post - but very interesting.
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Just in case you don't have it, here is the family in 1841 at Aston (all born Warwickshire):
John Pryse 50
Sarah Pryse 50
Jane Pryse 20
Thomas Pryse 15
John Pryse 14
Lewis Pryse 11
Ann Pryse 4
H0107/1149/6 pg 4
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That's the Welsh immigrants from Cardiganshire
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Hi I have been investigating the Cashmore family, in particular Paul Cashmore who it would appear produced revolvers which were recorded as Pryse and Cashmore - and patented somehow by George Daw.
On an article I have with regards to the Cashmore and particularly Pryse and Cashmore revolvers it informs that Pryse remained in business through to 1883 and that in 1886 the firm reorganised in the name of 'Thomas & Lewis Pryse (his sons)' and remained in business until around 1904. I have this information from https://collegehillaresenal.com
Hope this helps.
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The web page https://collegehillaresenal.com doesn't work for me can it be checked please?
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The web page https://collegehillaresenal.com doesn't work for me can it be checked please?
Try this: https://collegehillarsenal.com/ I can only see the old guns for sale, but maybe I didn't dig deep enough into the search box!
Edit: Some history on this page: https://collegehillarsenal.com/cased-engraved-pryse-cashmore-revolver-very-fine