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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cynmac on Monday 16 September 19 16:06 BST (UK)
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Hi I am looking for any info re Sarah Jane Griffiths b 1870 Wales but living in Hunslet after 1891 , also birth record of Harold Griffiths b 1897 in Hunslet and any info after this date . Thanks
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Using FreeBMD there are no birth registrations in West Yorkshire for Harold Griffiths 1895-1899
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
I'm assuming that you are referring to the 1901 census entry for
Sarah J Griffiths - 30 born South Wales - Domestic servant
Harold Griffiths - 4 - born Leeds
RG13/4240 folio 12 page 15
Oops - used West Yorkshire and not West Riding :-[ :-X
June quarter 1896 - Hunslet - Harold Griffiths - mmn = -
:-[ :-[ :-[
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Yes they are the people I am interested in. . I would like to find any info after this census and also any details of the birth of Harold.
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You can purchase Harold's birth certificate from GRO - pdf version at £7.00 - https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
You will have to register, but it's free.
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I take it Sarah was his mother. Possible she marries a Thomas Routledge in Cockermouth 1906?
If correct death for Sarah J Routledge death 1932 Cockermouth age 62.
Harold marriage 1919 names his father as Ted deceased labourer.
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Thanks Milliepede this is the tie I am trying to sort out. My problem is that my Sarah was not married so there is no Ted Griffiths for a Harold who might be the son of my Sarah . My Sarah had an illegitimate daughter Martha Jane who was my Mother in Law and there has never been a mention in the family of her Mother.
Will start again from the beginning and send for some certificates.
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Hi
Possible marriage as said by Milliepede, from experience in my family tree illegitimate children just made a name up of friends or relatives as Father!! If this is the correct marriage for Harold then they had four children of which two died in infancy. After his death his wife remarried.
Harold was buried 24 December 1929 aged 33 at Becket Street Cemetery in Grave No. 17473 Unconsecrated Section and this appears to be a Communal Grave. Occupation is a Labourer of 11 County Street Leeds.
There is a death for Sarah J Griffiths in Bradford 1950 aged 79. 1939 Register Sarah J Griffiths born 11 Dec 1870 down as a W and Occupation Unpaid domestic duties. Again do not dismiss that she is down as widow, my 2xG.Grandmother had 3 children, never married but always classed herself as a widow!!!
Just out of interest was your Martha Jane born February 1891? There is a baptism for Martha Jane Griffiths March 5 1891 aged 3 weeks, mother Sarah Jane Griffiths and Father Thomas Kelly!!
Lynn
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Quite a complicated one
Here's my take on the situation -some records posted previously by other RootsChatters
I think Harold Griffiths was the illegit son of Sarah J Griffiths -on the marriage you gave in 1919 he gives his father as Ted griffiths deceased
Although the Parish entry clearly reads Ted (not a too common name/nickname at that time) I wonder if he would have given his father's name as Fred and it was misheard as Ted???
His sister (or half sister)martha Jane was living with her uncle Fred Griffiths in 1901
It also seems Harold's mother Sarah J Griffiths married Thomas Routledge (widower) in 1906 in Cockermouth reg district
Sarah and new husband Thomas Routledge and some of his sons along with Harold went to live in Cumberland and I think the death reg of Sarah Jane Routledge age 62 Sept qtr 1932 Cockermouth is that of Sarah Jane nee Griffiths
1901 census shows Sarah J Griffiths U 30 S Wales with son Harold Griffiths age 4 b Leeds
1901 census Martha J Griffiths age 10 is in Cockermouth with her Uncle Fred Griffiths age 50 coal miner b Pembroke and wife jane age 49
1891 19 Hall St Leeds
John Olin Head M 58 Coal Miner Tenby Pembs
Martha Ollin wife 61 Pembroke
SARAH J GRIFFITHS daughter S 20 Begelly Pembs
MARTHA J GRIFFITHS daughter 2mths Leeds
RG12 3663 56 20
1881
19 Hall St Leeds
John Ollen Head M 49 coal miner S Wales
Martha Ollin 58 S Wales
SARAH JANE GRIFFITHS granddaughter 10 S Wales
plus 4 Boarders
RG11 4488 146
I think relationships are incorrect as Martha was Sarah J's grandmother and although living as married in 1881 martha and John did not marry until 1883
Marrige St Peters Leeds
22 Jun 1883
John Ollin 50 widower Miner Regent St father Joseph Ollin occ Miner
Martha Griffiths 58 Widow regent St father William Darby occ Labourer
Witnesses Thomas Sowerby & Deborah Sowerby
this looks like Martha's baptism record
Haverfordwest Independant The Green meeting House St Thomas Green
Martha Derby born St Thomas Parish Dec 1822
baptised 19 Jan 1823
Parents William Derby & Sarah Davey
then there is a marriage reg Sept qtr 1844 Haverforwest
on same page Martha Darby & James Griffiths
so Sarah J Griffiths should be the daughter of one of Martha & James children
More tomorrow
Suz
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Thanks to all for info and ideas. Martha b 1891 has no Father on registration but Kelly on baptism ( where the address given is Hall Street Hunslet) and and on her marriage cert no Father given . I am happy that Martha is with her uncle
In Cumberland and this is where she was married from, so all OK with Martha.
A Sarah Griffiths married Thomas Routledge as his second wife. Thomas was born and lived in Cumberland. Sarah was actually born in Wales and 1911 census says Hunslet, the birth place however is not too relevant.
None of the family of Martha, after her marriage, had any connection with a Routledge family which is what seems strange as they woukd have been living about 6 mikes apart, and is what makes me wonder if this is the correct Sarah.
Regarding the marriage of Harold and a Fathers name ,I need the baptism or birth record of Harold and if he had a Father this would not be him as Sarah hadn't married.
Martha and her husband were in Canada from 1911 to 1922 when they returned to Cumberland.
Must clear my head about what might be and try to find some facts.
Thank to you all for your interest .
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If this is Martha Jane's marriage
Jun qtr 1910 Cockermouth
on same page Samuel McFarland Martha Jane Griffiths
this Martha Jane is definately the daughter of Sarah Jane Griffiths who married Mr Routledge and sister to Harold
Martha Jane after marriage lived with Uncle Fred for a short time along with Albert Griffiths who was also Fred's nephew and he was the son of Isaac (Sarah Jane's brother)
more shortly
Suz
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[quote author=lynn link=topic=818792.msg6808454#msg6808454 date=1568678
Just out of interest was your Martha Jane born February 1891? There is a baptism for Martha Jane Griffiths March 5 1891 aged 3 weeks, mother Sarah Jane Griffiths and Father Thomas Kelly!!
Lynn
[/quote
I think the image of baptism reads
Baptism 5 Mar 1891 Beeston Hill Gildersom Holbeck Hunslet
Martha Jane age 3 weeks daughter of Sarah Jane Griffiths and Thomas Keely (not Kelly)
address 19 Hall St
Possiblity for Martha's father
1891 8 Lom? Terrace Hunslet
Thomas and wife Esther keeley with several children one of them being Thomas Keeley age 18 single Boiler Rivetter b Leeds
RG12 3661
Suz
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Hi Suzard. Are you sure of the relationship between Martha and this Sarah Jane ? That is brilliant if you know for sure. That is definitely the marriage as they were my in laws. I find it strange none of the family know this.
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Look at the address
and then look at this baptism
United Methodist FreeChurch
21 May1896
Harold son of Sarah Jane Griffiths & William Edward
age 3weeks
address 19 Hall St
William Edward has both names put in the forename column - but iit doesnt look like his surname was Griffiths - it would probably be his forenames but surname not given
As Sarah jane was Methodist an illegit birth would be frowned upon so often a name was entered - but could not be entered on the birth certificate unless the father attended registration
1881 census
19 HALL STREET LEEDS
John Ollen Head M49 Coal Miner
MARTHA OLLENwife58
SARAH JANE GRIFFITHSGranddaughter 10
plus 4 boarders
allb S Wales
RG11 4488 146 26
1891
19HALL STREET LEEDS
John Ollin Head M 58 coal minerTenby
MARTHA OLLIN wife 61 Cotton Spinner Pembroke
SARAH J GRIFFITHS daughter (should be granddaughter) single 20 Bedelly Pembroke
MARTHA J GRIFFITHS daughter (great granddaughter)2mths Leeds
RG12 3663 56 20
1871 Begelly Moor Pembroke (these are the children from Martha Darby/Griffiths and other names from marriages)
Mary J Griffiths Head unmarried 18 Pembroke Dock
Isaac Griffiths Brother 13 St Isells ( Isaacs son Albert lived with Uncle Fred after 1901 -along with married martha jane daughter of Sarah J )
Rachael Mathias sister 8 Begellty
Adelaide Evans sister 4 Begellty
SARAH J GRIFFITHS sister 5months Begelly ( possibly Mary J was Sarah J's mother not sister)
RG10 5510 18 11
all things point to Martha Jane and Harold being the children of Sarah J Griffiths -both of them being illegit born at 19 Hall St to Sarah J
Its complicated - possibly Sarah Jane Griffiths never married Thomas Keely/Kelly as they were possibly of different religions -or of course Thomas just didnt want to get wed
Suz
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Hi This is brilliant. The address for Harold at Hall Street is spot on, this was the address of the birth of Martha Jane, I have the birth reg. Thomas Kelly is not on the birth reg for Martha but is on the baptism so that would agree with your explanation about Methodist baptism. Martha was born 14th Feb 1891 and I married her 7th son on Feb 15th as it was the nearest Saturday to her birthday. I will be now sending for the marriage cert. for Sarah and Thomas Routledge , it will be interesting to see who the witnesses are.
Thank you so much for the info you have found for me, I am really grateful.
Cheers.
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Please let us know when the certificates arrive
and if you then want to go further back - it is complicated- we are all here to help
Suz
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Suzard...just as a matter of interest Martha was pregnant and living with Uncle Fred in 1911 as her husband Samuel had gone to Canada in 1910 . The baby was stillborn and she followed in 1912. The next 2 children were born in Canada and they all returned in 1920. The rest of the children all born in Cumberland.
I have the Griffiths family back to 1779. Isn't it the usual thing that it's the people in the 20th century who are the hardest to find.
Once again many thanks.