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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: vandab on Thursday 12 September 19 14:27 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have a problem with my 2nd great grandmothers' date of birth.
I have a source citation for her birth as the 09 Apr 1846 in Madras, India, I have a citation for her marriage in 1856 which gives her birthdate as 1839.
If the citation for her birth is correct, that will make her 10 when she married.
My question is, how to I get a birth certificate for her?
I'm really hoping her birth citation is wrong but I need to confirm it
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Have you looked for a British Indian baptism or a consular birth record?
*Assuming she was of British heritage, which I now realise you didn't suggest.
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Where did you get the 2 dates from?
Did she ever live in England? If so - a census entry will give her birthyear
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If you could give us her name and her husband's name (and a location for the marriage), we would be better placed to help.
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Thankyou
I have a citation of her birth from India select birth and Baptisms 1786 to 1947 and I also have the same for her marriage
Her Dad was Patrick Walsh who I believe was in the 92nd Highlanders
She married Robert Brown 09 Sep 1856 • Sanawur, Bengal, India who was in the Seaforth Highlanders
Her name was Elizabeth Walsh
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The 1871 census gives her DoB as 1840, which I believe is correct but unless I can get a birth certificate I have no way of knowing for sure
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Where is she in 1871.
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The Garrison in Sheppey, Kent
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On marriage (9 Sep 1856, Sanawar nr Kussowlie) she was a 17 yr old orphan, ward of the Lawrence Military Asylum. Father: Pat[rick] Walsh, H.M. 22nd Regt, decd.
Robert Brown was 32.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lawrence_School,_Sanawar
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The Garrison in Sheppey, Kent
To save anyone searching
RG10 /988 f17 p30
Robert Brown 47 Pensioner bn Ireland
Elizabeth 31 bn East Indies
Children -Walter 7 & Alice 5 bn St Helena. Ernest 3 & Harry 1 bn Sheerness, Kent
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Familysearch has....
Elizabeth Walsh b. 9th April 1846, c. 6th May 1846 Madras, India
Parents....
Patrick 1812-1893 married Ann Francis 1816-1877, 11th June 1842, Tamil Nadu
Siblings...
Edmund 1843-1907/ Ann 1844-?/ John 1848-?/ Echeck William 1850-?/Henry 1852-1853/ Mary 1854-?
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I havent seen that but I know her dad was dead by then, I have never had any luck tracing her mother except for her name "Ann" although I found this yesterday, not sure if they are mine as yet.
Name: Anne Maginniss
Gender: Female
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: Feb 1836
Marriage Place: Ardcath, Ireland, Ireland
Parish Variants: Ardcath and Clonaliz, Clonaliz, Clonalvey
Diocese: Meath
Spouse: Patt Walsh
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Familysearch has....
Elizabeth Walsh b. 9th April 1846, c. 6th May 1846 Madras, India
Parents....
Patrick 1812-1893 married Ann Francis 1816-1877, 11th June 1842, Tamil Nadu
Siblings...
Edmund 1843-1907/ Ann 1844-?/ John 1848-?/ Echeck William 1850-?/Henry 1852-1853/ Mary 1854-?
Wow, I have never seen that before, so it sounds like the marriage I have just posted is not the one I needed. That is still saying what I hope/think is the wrong birthdate
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The Madras birth must simply be someone else - a different Elizabeth, surely? The Patrick Walsh who was her father was a Sergeant-Major in the Engineers' Dept at Fort St George on her baptism in 1846.
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Is this her!
GRO Chaplains Birth Indices
Elizabeth WALSH 1836-1837
Bengal, India
Archive Ref. BCHA
Page 197
Line 191.
The certificate can be ordered from the GRO.
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Is this her!
GRO Chaplains Birth Indices
Elizabeth WALSH 1836-1837
Bengal, India
Archive Ref. BCHA
Page 197
Line 191.
The certificate can be ordered from the GRO.
Not sure as those dates are very different.
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The dates are not that different. Many people did not know their exact age, not like today when everything is well documented.
ADDED They are certainly closer than the 1846 birth
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According to marriage image, Robert BROWN was Band Sergeant in the 2nd Bengal Fusiliers.
The witnesses were R. HADFIELD and M.A. STEPHENS.
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The Madras birth must simply be someone else - a different Elizabeth, surely? The Patrick Walsh who was her father was a Sergeant-Major in the Engineers' Dept at Fort St George on her baptism in 1846.
Familysearch has....
Elizabeth Walsh b. 9th April 1846, c. 6th May 1846 Madras, India
Parents....
Patrick 1812-1893 married Ann Francis 1816-1877, 11th June 1842, Tamil Nadu
Siblings...
Edmund 1843-1907/ Ann 1844-?/ John 1848-?/ Echeck William 1850-?/Henry 1852-1853/ Mary 1854-?
I do not think this is my Elizabeth, I have seen this as a hint on Ancestry and it has Patrick Walsh death and his DoB as very different, either that or all the info that I have is wrong
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I agree. Disregard the 1846 birth/baptism as not your Elizabeth. The 1836-7 one looks a touch old in light of the ages recorded for Elizabeth in 1856 and 1871 (which suggest 1839-40), but shouldn't be ruled out at this stage.
Back to the drawing board. What do you know of your Patrick Walsh - birth/death dates? Where in India did he live/serve/die? Was he Catholic or Protestant, so far as you know? - this may affect the availability of records.
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The marriage to Robert Brown, Sept 1856.... There are the following possible births.....
Evaline Mary 1859/ Henry William 1862/ Walter Gilbert 1864/ James 1869-1869
I have a death of an Elizabeth Brown 1839-1895 Lucknow
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The marriage to Robert Brown, Sept 1856.... There are the following possible births.....
Evaline Mary 1859/ Henry William 1862/ Walter Gilbert 1864/ James 1869-1869
The births don't fit with the known family in 1871:
Walter 7 b St Helena (unless this is Walter Gilbert??)
Alice 5 b St Helena
Ernest 3 b Sheerness
Harry 1 b Sheerness
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Where do you have Robert, Elizabeth and their children after the 1871 census at Sheerness
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Walter Gilbert Brown b 20 Feb 1864 was baptised 2 March 1864 at Bareilly - parents Robert (Sergt, HM 104th Regt) and Elizabeth.
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The marriage to Robert Brown, Sept 1856.... There are the following possible births.....
Evaline Mary 1859/ Henry William 1862/ Walter Gilbert 1864/ James 1869-1869
I have a death of an Elizabeth Brown 1839-1895 Lucknow
Elizabeth died in Sheppey Kent and I do not know any of the above names for the children
Walter 7 b St Helena (unless this is Walter Gilbert??)
Alice 5 b St Helena
Ernest 3 b Sheerness
Harry 1 b Sheerness
These are the correct kids, Alice is my great grandmother
I def do not think that Ann Francis is mine either, I do think that the birth in 1846 is not my Elizabeth so will send for the certificate for the other find
Posts: 4,028
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Re: finding a birth certificate
« Reply #14 on: Today at 15:15 »
Quote
GRO Chaplains Birth Indices
Elizabeth WALSH 1836-1837
Bengal, India
Archive Ref. BCHA
Page 197
Line 191.
As for Robert Brown, I know very little about him, I do have him being born in Belfast in 1822 but not sure if that is right.
I am getting confused now although it doesn't take a lot. I'm not a very organised person.
Thankyou all so much for your help. I think you all have been great
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Births in England to Robert & Elizabeth Brown:
Ernest Brown mmn Walsh, Jun qtr 1868 Sheppey
Harry Brown mmn Walsh, Dec qtr 1869 Sheppey
William Charles Brown mmn Walsh, Dec qtr 1871 Sheppey (?)
What are the details of Elizabeth's death in Sheppey?
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A little information on Robert BROWN.
Robert was discharged in Bareilly in 1864, having served 23 years and 270 days, 23 years and 180 days of which were served in India.
His character and conduct was good.
When promoted he held two Good Conduct stripes.
His name appeared once in the Regimental Defaulters book.
He had never been tried by Court Martial.
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A little information on Robert BROWN.
Robert was discharged in Bareilly in 1864, having served 23 years and 270 days, 23 years and 180 days of which were served in India.
His character and conduct was good.
When promoted he held two Good Conduct stripes.
His name appeared once in the Regimental Defaulters book.
He had never been tried by Court Martial.
Is he a match (regiment-wise) for the Robert Brown who was married to "our" Elizabeth?
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Yes, it is the same man, age and regiment are the same. He also came from Belfast.
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A little information on Robert BROWN.
Robert was discharged in Bareilly in 1864, having served 23 years and 270 days, 23 years and 180 days of which were served in India.
His character and conduct was good.
When promoted he held two Good Conduct stripes.
His name appeared once in the Regimental Defaulters book.
He had never been tried by Court Martial.
Thank you for that, can you give me the link so I can save it to my laptop. I had no info about him other than where he was born, so any is very gratefully received.
You people on here are amazing and so very helpful. I really appreciate the help xx
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The discharge papers are on Findmypast, there are four pages, if you are not already a member, you will need to subscribe to be able to view the link.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F1683%2F031%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F1683%2F814539
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Thanks, I have brought some credits so I can see them